DTC 1199S vs panigale R

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Hello. Is anyone know is there any diffrence DTC in 1199S / Panigale R?
Why are asking, because driving same track, same level (dtc3) 1199S central yellow light was blinking allmost all corners, Panigale R nothing, and I was faster in corners pani R...( notice that when was looking my videoclips last year 1199S and now pani R)
Thanks,
 
The R has a slightly updated DTS which adds metrics from lean angle sensor to the slip table. The 1299 has the same electronics.

The anniversary 1299S also has a slide table in the system when the DTS is set to 1.
 
Hello. Is anyone know is there any diffrence DTC in 1199S / Panigale R?
Why are asking, because driving same track, same level (dtc3) 1199S central yellow light was blinking allmost all corners, Panigale R nothing, and I was faster in corners pani R...( notice that when was looking my videoclips last year 1199S and now pani R)
Thanks,

Geometry is slightly different and was the suspension set up the same on both bikes
 
Could also be the tyres, tyre conditions, tyre pressures. Both bikes got the same map / remap? Throttle spacers? And as some has said, R has adjustable swingarm pivot that is meant to provide better grip going out of corners, S doesn't and 1199S indeed has a little exit grip issue. Tc settings are the same?
Comparing 1199s to 1199r would be closer than panigale R, but they are both subjects to the above.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk
 
If you're riding on the track with race tires, DTC should be in Level 1, and if you have the stock Supercorsa SP tires it should be in Level 2. If you're using any level other than that, you're doing it wrong.
 
If you're riding on the track with race tires, DTC should be in Level 1, and if you have the stock Supercorsa SP tires it should be in Level 2. If you're using any level other than that, you're doing it wrong.
Ok:)
Testing today, if is working... Put dtc 8 local mountain roads, and dash was like christmas three...lots of dtc blinking:):)
Ps. Also have chance put it dyno ( dynos are not so common in switzerland:mad:)
186 rwhp, bone stock Panigale R, 3500km. Not bad..
 

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If you see the DTC light coming on constantly when you roll on the throttle on corner exits, you have it in too high of a level for the type of riding you're doing and/or the conditions. The system is not designed to work like that, it's designed to provide optimum DRIVE off the turns by limiting wheelspin to produce the best grip. It's NOT designed to prevent all wheelspin, you need a certain amount of wheelspin to produce maximum forward drive. It's referred to as the "slip-grip" ratio, and each tire has a certain ratio that is optimum for it's construction. If you stop all wheelspin, you'll find a major reduction in corner exit speed. Some mistakenly believe this to be "safer" and we are constantly fighting the battle of misperception with the DTC system as far as what "safer" means. If we can all agree that "safer" means not crashing, then we're on the right path. What does it take to keep a rider for crashing on corner exits as far as DTC intervention? Stopping all wheelspin? No. Stopping runaway wheelspin while the bike is lent over? Yes. The DTC system will do that in Level 1. Running it in Level 8 will NOT make the bike in any way "safer" than Level 1. The levels are designed to provide optimum drive grip in various conditions with various tires on the bike. Level 1 is for race tires, on the track. Level 2 is for the stock Supercorsa SP tires on the track, Level 3 and above are for street riding. You CAN run higher than level 2 on the track, but all you're doing is forcing the system to interfere more than it needs to, you're in no way "safer" than you would be in the correct level. Let the system work as it was designed and you'll find it works phenomenally well.
 
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If you see the DTC light coming on constantly when you roll on the throttle on corner exits, you have it in too high of a level for the type of riding you're doing and/or the conditions. The system is not designed to work like that, it's designed to provide optimum DRIVE off the turns by limiting wheelspin to produce the best grip. It's NOT designed to prevent all wheelspin, you need a certain amount of wheelspin to produce maximum forward drive. It's referred to as the "slip-grip" ratio, and each tire has a certain ratio that is optimum for it's construction. If you stop all wheelspin, you'll find a major reduction in corner exit speed. Some mistakenly believe this to be "safer" and we are constantly fighting the battle of misperception with the DTC system as far as what "safer" means. If we can all agree that "safer" means not crashing, then we're on the right path. What does it take to keep a rider for crashing on corner exits as far as DTC intervention? Stopping all wheelspin? No. Stopping runaway wheelspin while the bike is lent over? Yes. The DTC system will do that in Level 1. Running it in Level 8 will NOT make the bike in any way "safer" than Level 1. The levels are designed to provide optimum drive grip in various conditions with various tires on the bike. Level 1 is for race tires, on the track. Level 2 is for the stock Supercorsa SP tires on the track, Level 3 and above are for street riding. You CAN run higher than level 2 on the track, but all you're doing is forcing the system to interfere more than it needs to, you're in no way "safer" than you would be in the correct level. Let the system work as it was designed and you'll find it works phenomenally well.

The logical next question would be how are we really supposed to best use DTC on the track? If you're coming out of the slowest corner on your track at max lean what's the best way to approach your exit to get the most out of DTC?

With ABS on the street you're pretty much told to get on the brakes as hard as possible, as quickly as possible, and let the system sort things out. We get no such usage advice when it comes to traction control on the street or on the track.

I've always thought being as smooth as possible and keeping things at a level that doesn't require any intervention is the fastest way to ride but if DTC is designed to maximize drive wouldn't we want to push up to the point where it intervenes then maybe dial it back a hair since if we don't get there we're leaving something on the table?
 
The logical next question would be how are we really supposed to best use DTC on the track? If you're coming out of the slowest corner on your track at max lean what's the best way to approach your exit to get the most out of DTC?

With ABS on the street you're pretty much told to get on the brakes as hard as possible, as quickly as possible, and let the system sort things out. We get no such usage advice when it comes to traction control on the street or on the track.

I've always thought being as smooth as possible and keeping things at a level that doesn't require any intervention is the fastest way to ride but if DTC is designed to maximize drive wouldn't we want to push up to the point where it intervenes then maybe dial it back a hair since if we don't get there we're leaving something on the table?

Being smooth on the throttle still helps a lot, you want DTC intervention to be as minimal as possible to get the best drive. In other words, you don't just whack the throttle open and "force" DTC to kick in, you roll on progressively as you would if you didn't have DTC, only you can be slightly more aggressive with it. The reality is most riders never roll on the throttle hard enough at lean to engage the system, they only engage it when they're nearly upright by whacking the throttle open.
 
Could also be the tyres, tyre conditions, tyre pressures. Both bikes got the same map / remap? Throttle spacers? And as some has said, R has adjustable swingarm pivot that is meant to provide better grip going out of corners, S doesn't and 1199S indeed has a little exit grip issue. Tc settings are the same?
Comparing 1199s to 1199r would be closer than panigale R, but they are both subjects to the above.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

(correct me if I'm wrong but..) The R has adjustability to move between the 1199S position at '0' and the 1299S position at '-4' and the mid point '-2' in between so it's not that different.
I havn't got around to testing it yet as the R is proving a bit more work setting the suspension up than my 1199S but my understanding is that the '-4' position helps when either the surface is not so great or for whatever reason there is more wheel spin, hence the 1299S being generally better on the road. I think, but I'm not certain, that the original '0' position of the 1199S is often going to be useful when on good tyres and with good surface and potentially giving more drive? I've never experienced the reported pumping on the 1199S anywhere other than one particular part of silverstone where there is a big bump where the GP track meets the National track straight and the surface changes.
 
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Being smooth on the throttle still helps a lot, you want DTC intervention to be as minimal as possible to get the best drive. In other words, you don't just whack the throttle open and "force" DTC to kick in, you roll on progressively as you would if you didn't have DTC, only you can be slightly more aggressive with it. The reality is most riders never roll on the throttle hard enough at lean to engage the system, they only engage it when they're nearly upright by whacking the throttle open.

@Jarelj This and your earlier post all make lots of sense but how do you think it transfers to rain and also people leaning on the electronics to spin up the wheel 'drifting' as you can see in the BMW and Stoner on the 1299 Aniversario youtube vids that have been doing the rounds?

Surely in rain conditions the slip/grip ratio of the tyre is completely different and does make sense to use the TC in a higher setting, and similar logic when you want a safety net when purposely spinning up the rear wheel to learn oversteer?
 
@Jarelj This and your earlier post all make lots of sense but how do you think it transfers to rain and also people leaning on the electronics to spin up the wheel 'drifting' as you can see in the BMW and Stoner on the 1299 Aniversario youtube vids that have been doing the rounds?

Surely in rain conditions the slip/grip ratio of the tyre is completely different and does make sense to use the TC in a higher setting, and similar logic when you want a safety net when purposely spinning up the rear wheel to learn oversteer?

As far as rain goes, completely different situation. The DTC system is programmed with rain settings, which which are Level 7 and 8. 7 would be for rain riding on the track, 8 for rain riding on the street (Caveat: unless they've changed it since the 1199, I haven't checked specifically on that, but that's what the settings were for the 1199 DTC system for rain).

As far as "drifting" on corner exit, the electronics have evolved now to the point where they can use the additional data provided by the IMU to actually allow it without the electronics cutting in to stop it, BUT to still intervene if it gets out of control and is about to cause a high side. That's pretty amazing really, it's part of the new DTC EVO system, debuted on the Anniversario model. However, that's still an advanced riding technique, and the intent of the system is NOT to allow a beginner to "learn" how to do it, the intent is for an advanced rider who already rides that way, and would normally want DTC turned off to allow them to control the slide with the throttle, to leave it on and gain an additional advantage by being even slightly more aggressive with the throttle than they normally would be.

I'll give you an example, we had Jake Zemke out at one of our track weekends last year doing riding instruction. I gave him a Superbike to use as his instruction bike and after his first session on the track he came in and said "Turn all that stuff off, it's slowing me down." That was on Level 1 with race tires on the bike, but it was still cutting in enough that he couldn't "square off" the corner and drift out like he wanted to. Maybe that would be different now with DTC EVO.

If you are not at that level currently, you really don't want to "try" to drift your bike out, you're not going to learn anything. What you want to do is continue increasing your mastery of the basics by being on the gas early and smoothly and a good line, and over time you'll find you can get on the gas harder and harder on the exit to the point that it naturally starts to step out a little on some turns. If you just try to whack the throttle open and get the rear to spin up, you'll just force DTC to go into "You idiot, you're about to high side" mode and instead of getting a Stoner-esque drift you'll get a cut in power and you'll get passed on the exit of the turn by an SV650. ;)
 

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