Engine rebuild - Cylinder liner protrusion

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Raidoctober

Joined Nov 2023
54 Posts | 26+
New York
It's my first time rebuilding my 1199 engine and I am hitting an obstacle.
My cylinder liners are not sitting flush in the engine block. The manual only mentions pushing them down all the way but doesn't mention if a protrusion should remain.

Currently, I have a ~0.35mm protrusion and I can't get to push them down further even when putting all my strength into the tool.
When checking on other forums it seems like having a 0.02mm to 0.05mm protrusion is considered good practice.

Mine seems to be way too big and I don't remember the kind of protrusion it had when disassembling the engine.
Do any of you know or have experience with this?
 
Just measured the thickness of the cylinder lip and compared it to the case indentation. The cylinder lip is about ~0.30mm thicker so I know I cannot physically push if further down.
I have x5 cylinders liners (x2 new, x3 olds) and they all have the same lip thickness.
I am starting to think that this extensive protrusion might not be so abnormal.
 
Is it possible to press the old ones in and recheck? Or check the liner depths by putting the liners side-by-side on a flat reference surface (glass plate, granite, some flat stock in a pinch) and then a straight edge on the top and you'll be able to see the discrepancies
 
So you do think it's not a normal protrusion? Do you remember seeing these liner completely flush with the block?

The old ones also stick out the same amount and I don't think there is any way to push them in any further without removing material because that top lip is thicker than the block's indentation.
After spending the past 3 days splitting, refitting, re-splitting, re-fitting the two halves. I would rather avoid re-splitting it again just to check the total length of the cylinders unless I know for sure that this protrusion is not ok.
I tried to fit the cylinder flush with the block when the engine was split open and that protrusion was also there.
 
If you go foward run a cylinder compression test and that will tell you if any sealing issues before putting back into the bike and running
 
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Hey guys!

Big update on my build.
She starts:
I briefly rode it up and down the street to check the different gears.

That was a crazy journey!
Adding to the challenge the fact that it's my first real engine overhaul, that I am swapping engines 1199s into an 899 and finally the fact that the engine was rusted from the Brooklyn floods of last year. Pheew!!

Huge thanks to Seth Vo for his advice and help when I was getting stuck on obscure technical issues!

At the moment I am trying to solve the speed sensor fault preventing me from seeing my speed and disabling the EBC and TC. If anyone knows what I should check let me know 🙂.

DB.jpeg

DA.jpeg

D1.jpeg

D2.jpeg

D3.jpeg

D4.jpeg

D6.jpeg
 
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Big win!

For the wheel speed sensor, I’d first check to make sure there’s no wear marks on it. It can easily get rubbed by the front tire if it’s been installed wonky. Do you have access to OBDStar or JPDiag? I think you’d be able to read the sensor from one of these diagnostic tools.
 
I did check both sensors and didn't see significant marks. The gap with the phonic wheel is within spec (1.3 to 1.9mm).
I also checked their voltages (1-4 mili Volts when the wheel spins by hand) and resistance (450,000 ohm, seems high but what do I know about speed sensors).
Not sure if those numbers are correct but both front and back have similar results.
I do have a spare speed sensor that I am going to test out tomorrow.
I also have a spare ABS module I can test since they are both directly wired to it. Actually that module might be faulty because both front and rear brakes are spongy on the first pump even after bleeding the fluid and cleaning pistons and seals of the calipers. But I am not sure if that could cause that speed sensor fault and I am getting out of ideas. Could be the wiring harness I guess 🤯
 
For the level of work you're doing, buying an OBDStar iScan Ducati really makes sense. You can see in real time the sensor values and status of various switches to verify their function.

I used mine to reset a forgotten PIN code on a 2021 Panigale V4S. Not having to visit the dealer for that was amazing.
 
Sorry, forgot to reply about the scans.
I did do the Melcodiag by JPdiag but it didn't return any specific error code. I had one exhaust valve servo error because of the Terminioni and one old Can line error that I forgot to mention.
Is the OBDStar IScan more powerful and detailed than the Melcodiag? Do you think it gives insight about speed sensor issues?
 
Melco is a much more basic program and I don’t think is supported anymore outside of their forum. OBDStar is a knock-off of the dealer scan tool. You can buy Ducati DDS for around $3k IIRC. Or you can buy the same thing unbranded, a Texa Navigator for around $1.5K. I think both require a subscription service. The OBDStar is about $450, maybe less if you catch it on sale or with a promotion.

Melco was a great solution for older bikes to allow owners to reset service indicators etc. I don’t think it has full access to the CAN bus on newer bikes which would expose all of the more advanced diagnostic stuff you can do.

CAN bus equipped vehicles are much more intricate than simple 12V systems. Easier in a way as there’s so much more diagnostic information,
 
Figured the speed sensor issue. It was the BBS. Luckily I had a spare, the one that originally came with the Odometer and ABS module. The one that I got with the ECU doesn't like speed sensors I guess.

Well.. I was all giddy and I took the bike out but after 10 yards the engine light appeared. Connected the Melcodiag and it's not giving me any codes. Sooo I guess I'll just try to get the OBDstar. :confused:

Hahaha, silly me, I almost thought I could ride the bike this weekend.
 
Raidoctober said:
So you do think it's not a normal protrusion? Do you remember seeing these liner completely flush with the block?

The old ones also stick out the same amount and I don't think there is any way to push them in any further without removing material because that top lip is thicker than the block's indentation.
After spending the past 3 days splitting, refitting, re-splitting, re-fitting the two halves. I would rather avoid re-splitting it again just to check the total length of the cylinders unless I know for sure that this protrusion is not ok.
I tried to fit the cylinder flush with the block when the engine was split open and that protrusion was also there.
Click to expand...

So was the protrusion issue resolved, or was it not really an issue?
 
Ducati North America told me that a little protrusion is normal and that the cylinder get fully seated once the heads are torqued onto the block. They didn't tell me how much is too much protrusion though.
The engine has only run a few minutes so I don't think I can tell for sure. Right now, no leaks but I am guessing I'll know if the head gasket holds for sure after the first 600 miles.
 
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[email protected]
I didn't think they would've answered either but I nobody else knew the answer.
A technician replied with one sentence and told me to go to my local ducati dealership (Ducati NY) for further questions.

Ducati NY just told me to bring the motorcycle in :D. Completely defeating the DIY part of the project.
I understand that they want to get paid but there should be more available literature for the DIYers that venture into engine rebuilding.

In the end Seth Vo, Desmoaddict from reddit and Esqzme from the MV Agusta forum were my guides.

If I can confirm that I did everything correctly and have a running bike. I'll try to document better my next build with videos to help out future rebuilders
 
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Correct!
The technical service team has provided a feedback and they advised that the slight protrusion is fine. The liner will protrude slightly until the head is installed, as the o-ring on top of the liner )between the cylinder and the deck surface) will hold it up slightly until the head is torqued into place.
Click to expand...
 
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The melcodiag wasn't working because I had switched the BBS and needed a re-registration.
Now I have these 4 codes:
-C100D, Status 68
-C199C, Status 68
-P100C [BBS] exhaust valve potentiometer short circuit to positive, status 62
-P1006 [BBS] Ehaust valve calibration - no motion detected, status ...

The last two are weird because I have a servo eliminator and I did delete the codes but they come back. Maybe the BBS keep them and never delete them.
I have no idea what the first two refer to.
 

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