Fakes Thread

[youpaiyou]

What about Taiwan? Is that Chinese? What about all the Hype on TSMC and their semiconductor factory. Guess what those chips are made on? ASML equipment Veldhoven Netherlands. China can’t get their hands on the machine which is why they want Taiwan.

China can’t do anything but steal its tech. Why would anyone buy garbage from that country. I’m out watching football with a group, all wearing something from China. I’m wearing Zamberlan boots, grip6 socks, culprit panties, Kitanica pants, Kitanica shirt and a Kitanica jacket. Head to to except for the shoes (made in Italy) made in the USA. You don’t need to buy Chinese, you deserve better.

Say what you want about Endo, but he has excellent taste. I’m checking out all of these companies now. Socks with a warranty?!?! Mind blown.

Hey Endo, check out MISSION WORKSHOP | Waterproof Bags & Technical Apparel

They have nice apparel, etc. I believe that they do a lot of manufacturing in the USA, but their FAQ page references other countries (including China). Anyway, I’d be curious if their stuff passes your quality control test. Again, I’m going to check out these companies that you referenced.

 

[endodoc]

Thanks for the link sir. Hope you and the family are doing well. Can’t say enough about Kitanica, I have a lot of their stuff. All made in Oakland CA. I’m trying to get behind Originmain and some other US companies.

 

[SuperDomestique]

All for buying the best that one can afford. But one country isn't better than another. The US isn't the global leader it is bc of its manufacturing sector. It's powerful because this country gives its people the most opportunity. The US better be careful that China may leapfrog us in key technologies if it's not careful.

Also, may want to double check that Kitanica makes ALL of their stuff in the USA.

 

[BP PanigaleV4S]

 

[endodoc]

Dear Mr Super, I don’t think the “vibe” is hitting you quite squarely. First off you seem somewhat bent on propping up the Chinese and not acknowledging the rationale that exists. Your chart while entertaining is not germane to the context which is quality not quantity.

The Chinese nation as a whole in general when it comes to goods and services is philosophically and mechanically cultured to deliver garbage from a quality perspective and that they do very well. Worse, the garbage that they do deliver is based on something well made that was stolen from other countries with complete disregard towards IP.

With Regard to Kitanica, again seems like you are hell bent on finding some sliver of hope to support you position. Do the sell an insert pad or a ball cap that is not US, and not part of their flagship line (which is all anyone buys from them) I’m sure they do however I absolutely know for a fact their pants, shorts, jackets, fleece are made in Oakland CA. I have visited their facility and seen the operation and picked up items right off the production line.

I recently bought an Ellis 4900 drill press. Made in USA. It came with accessories in a zipper heavy nylon bag. Right on the bag, “made in China”. I get it but I didn’t buy the “Ellis” for the flippin bag which I threw out.

If you are perhaps Chinese and I have offended you in some way, I apologize. Nothing against a particular nationality. I am specifically referencing the country of origin and that countries philosophy towards goods, services and trade to which I try and present the middle finger to wherever possible.

On a side note, I did my time in the USN, born and raised in the USA but I’m not some patriot, I’m all for anyone doing things right. I buy quality across the board, and I don’t care what country it comes from. China builds junk, I haven’t found anything I would buy willingly from a “Chinese” company. That could change but so far across many platforms “Chinese” goods at least in the categories I buy goods in are crap.

Again I am specifically talking about a “Chinese” company “wi wi loqual” not Milwaukee Professional Tool Co made by Chinese workers.

 

[Paul G]

Don't buy crap, China makes the quality products if you want to pay for them, I just dont get the US attitude about China

 

[endodoc]

Don't buy crap, China makes the quality products if you want to pay for them, I just dont get the US attitude about China

Really? Ask Jim Jannard (Oakley) or Phil Knight (Nike) or the thousands of other successful US brand owners to explain it to you.

 

[SuperDomestique]

Don't buy crap, China makes the quality products if you want to pay for them, I just dont get the US attitude about China

Agreed. There’s a lot of crap made in the USA and everywhere else.

Dear Mr Super, I don’t think the “vibe” is hitting you quite squarely. First off you seem somewhat bent on propping up the Chinese and not acknowledging the rationale that exists. Your chart while entertaining is not germane to the context which is quality not quantity.

The Chinese nation as a whole in general when it comes to goods and services is philosophically and mechanically cultured to deliver garbage from a quality perspective and that they do very well. Worse, the garbage that they do deliver is based on something well made that was stolen from other countries with complete disregard towards IP.

With Regard to Kitanica, again seems like you are hell bent on finding some sliver of hope to support you position. Do the sell an insert pad or a ball cap that is not US, and not part of their flagship line (which is all anyone buys from them) I’m sure they do however I absolutely know for a fact their pants, shorts, jackets, fleece are made in Oakland CA. I have visited their facility and seen the operation and picked up items right off the production line.

I recently bought an Ellis 4900 drill press. Made in USA. It came with accessories in a zipper heavy nylon bag. Right on the bag, “made in China”. I get it but I didn’t buy the “Ellis” for the flippin bag which I threw out.

If you are perhaps Chinese and I have offended you in some way, I apologize. Nothing against a particular nationality. I am specifically referencing the country of origin and that countries philosophy towards goods, services and trade to which I try and present the middle finger to wherever possible.

On a side note, I did my time in the USN, born and raised in the USA but I’m not some patriot, I’m all for anyone doing things right. I buy quality across the board, and I don’t care what country it comes from. China builds junk, I haven’t found anything I would buy willingly from a “Chinese” company. That could change but so far across many platforms “Chinese” goods at least in the categories I buy goods in are crap.

Again I am specifically talking about a “Chinese” company “wi wi loqual” not Milwaukee Professional Tool Co made by Chinese workers.

Dear Mr Endo, I think we actually agree on a lot of things when it comes to this argument. I’m just not so ramrodded as you to write off a country as a whole because one has run across some crap products. I also don’t get where you think I’m hell bent on China. I don’t agree with a lot of what China does. China are complete ........ when it comes to civil rights and democracy. But you can’t deny that China is a leader in high precision mass production. They’ve produced close to 3 billion iPhones, which I’d say is the highest precision and highest produced product ever made. The tolerances and build quality on iPhones is second to none. They also make that ...... copycat Ducatis.

It’s good to see that there’s a resurgence in manufacturing products in the US and that the US government is trying to incentivize this. The US needs to stay competitive in the manufacturing sector. It’s not good that China is a leader in manufacturing. I try to buy US made as much as possible. But I’ll also buy a TV made in China. And a carbon fiber bike frame made in Slovakia. And a watch made in Switzerland.

But what I do disagree with you on is that you threw out a perfectly good bag

 

[Paul G]

Really? Ask Jim Jannard (Oakley) or Phil Knight (Nike) or the thousands of other successful US brand owners to explain it to you.

Im asking you

 

[Paul G]

It’s not good that China is a leader in manufacturing

Why not ?

 

[SuperDomestique]

Why not ?

Competition. China will try to leverage deals and dictate diplomacy. They’ll use it’s manufacturing might as a bargaining chip.

 

[Paul G]

A bargaining chip for what? Still don't get the hysterical sinophobia and who cares what they do in their country, its none of my business. I think it will be a while before we see a ducati level new brand from China which ironically is pretty much the same as my country or the US

 

[SuperDomestique]

A bargaining chip for what? Still don't get the hysterical sinophobia and who cares what they do in their country, its none of my business. I think it will be a while before we see a ducati level new brand from China which ironically is pretty much the same as my country or the US

Tough to be sinophobic when your parents are Chinese and still have family there. Bargaining chip in the global politics and import/export. Being reliant on China is not a good thing since they’re not a US/EU partner.

 

[Loony888]

The US still has significant manufacturing in a variety of industries, If you're in the US you should support them. Here in Australia it's next to impossible to buy anything that isn't made in china without actively attempting to make a purchasing decision.
@endodoc is largely right in my mind, they shamelessly copy anything they can get their hands on, but, there is market for it, people for the most part will buy what's cheap, regardless whether it's brake pads or a t-shirt, so on a global scale we have enabled them....

What ..... me more than anything is companies who move their manufacturing there because the labour rate is so cheap, i'm unaware of how this labour force is treated but based on their history it's not likely to be very good, but paying a premium price for something (ie the same or a higher price) when it used to be manufactured in Germany or Spain (ARE YOU READING THIS PIRELLI???) and now are shipped from much closer, made for a fraction of the cost and have "Made in PRC" in such tiny writing you have to look really hard to find them is disgusting practice. I actively choose to buy from anywhere except China, locally if possible, being hoodwinked by the likes of Pirelli selling chinese made crap at a premium price just pisses me off, the country of origin should be clearly obvious for the consumer to choose, deceptive crap like that will force me to buy another brand next time.

HD with their "American Iron" ........ and all their trinkets and parts made in china is a crock of .... as well, not that i would ever lower myself to spend my hard earned wedge on one....

 

[endodoc]

Loony88, excellent post. I try to support integrity, innovation and ingenuity wherever it’s from. People are so used to junk now that they don’t know the difference and for the most part don’t care. Customer service has been so bad for so long that it’s not noticeable until you get an exemplary individual doing it right then it’s a shock to the system.

 

[SuperDomestique]

paying a premium price for something (ie the same or a higher price) when it used to be manufactured in Germany or Spain (ARE YOU READING THIS PIRELLI???) and now are shipped from much closer, made for a fraction of the cost and have "Made in PRC" in such tiny writing you have to look really hard to find them is disgusting practice.

This is Business 101. It's called profit margin. You want to make those higher to make more profit.

Pirelli selling chinese made crap at a premium price just pisses me off

Pirelli tires are made all around the world, yet Chinese made ones only draw your ire. Why exactly is a Chinese made Pirelli crap but a European made Pirelli good? If they're following the same QA, then there should be no difference. Considering that Pirelli used to be Chinese owned and still has a pretty significant share in the company (like 45%), you should avoid it all costs by your logic.

 

[Loony888]

This is Business 101. It's called profit margin. You want to make those higher to make more profit.

Pirelli tires are made all around the world, yet Chinese made ones only draw your ire. Why exactly is a Chinese made Pirelli crap but a European made Pirelli good? If they're following the same QA, then there should be no difference. Considering that Pirelli used to be Chinese owned and still has a pretty significant share in the company (like 45%), you should avoid it all costs by your logic.

You're not following my logic, you're looking for an argument, but anyway....

Pirelli making product in china is done so because the labour rate is cheaper, much cheaper than democratic countries where human rights and labour laws are respected. On top of that China is significantly closer to Australia (where i am) than Spain or Germany so freight should be much cheaper as well. yet their tyres are the same price if not higher which shows that Pirelli are only interested in raising their GM.

Frankly, i couldn't give a .... who owns what and at what percentage, what i care about is value for money and clarity, the made in china or made in PRC on the sidewall is so tiny and there is no disclosure anywhere on their website about where certain product lines are manufactured it seems deceptive to me. You, being a huge fan of china and chinese made products will no doubt disagree, and i couldn't give a .... about that either, that's your position and you are welcome to it.

My personal opinion is that i do not buy the cheapest option automatically, i buy what i like for a variety of reasons but i do actively choose to NOT buy chinese, and where possible anything from countries with poor human rights records where people are exploited for cheap labour while the companies that exploit trade happily (while buyers either have no idea or don't care because they want the brand name), boosting their profits and those of shareholders, oh and the quality of chinese made product is usually, in my experience crap, and here in Australia we are drowning in cheap chinese knock offs and dollar store wares passed off as decent by clever retailers, also deceptive when it comes to making clear where their stock originates.

Whatever country you live in, if you don't support your local industries then they are doomed to be relocated offshore, and unemployment is a very real concern for many people who lose their jobs for a variety of reasons, why add supporting China blindly to the list.....

 

[Paul G]

China did not steal jobs from democratic countries, business went there as fast as it could build factories with the blessing of their respective legislatures and approval from stockholders etc.

We have been sold the free market kool aid i.e. free for business to do whatever the .... it likes

 

[Loony888]

China did not steal jobs from democratic countries, business went there as fast as it could build factories with the blessing of their respective legislatures and approval from stockholders etc.

We have been sold the free market kool aid i.e. free for business to do whatever the .... it likes

you're right....

However business doing "whatever the .... it likes" is only valid if it's profitable, consumers need to spend their money more wisely, which is of course different for every consumer, which i get, for me, i'll actively choose to buy local whenever possible, and business can choose to manufacture wherever they please, of course, that doesn't mean consumers have to like it, accept it or support it with their hard earned dollars. It's a free market for now, but in my country we are being over run with imports, we make almost nothing locally and our biggest export by far is our natural resources, gas, copper, iron ore, bauxite, coal.... sold predominantly to china, whose rich are buying up our real estate at an alarming rate. I'm not racist, nor am i anti china per se, but i am definitely against being force fed their products with no option or choice and it's very quickly coming to that here.

If your country, wherever you are still has some semblance of manufacturing you should support it, globalisation is very real and while it's probably way too late, consumers need to wake up and support their own economy, their own workforce, before there's no choice and we're left to take what we're given

 

[Paul G]

I agree that we should buy and support local manufacturing because that how you get to live in a good country. Once upon a time govts had laws limiting the movement of capital and tarrifs that protected workers but since capitalism is about making profit it sends jobs to China chasing bottom lines. Do you think the people who import Chinese junk or send jobs offshore have more than a passing thought about you? This is the system, its a total joke that the political rhetoric is anti china when all the players remain heavily invested there for the foreseeable future. Industry is not coming home just yet.