First impressions of the Pani on track...

ScrapperX said:

According to Ducati Westlake they just reprogram the ride by wire system. You could call Grant at Ducati Westlake and he could give you more details. He also did his personal 1199.

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Macke said:

I sent them an e-mail from the contact form on their website. Had trouble figuring out the time difference yesterday when I had the time to call them...

No answer yet though...

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jarelj said:

The Tuneboy program can alter the throttle position tables for both front and rear cylinders, I assume that's how westlake is doing it. I'm having mine altered on my 899 this week and will be trying it at the track this weekend. The stock progression of throttle is very harsh where it opens a small amount in the first half of throttle index and then ramps up very rapidly in the second half, particularly the last 10% of throttle index. That's why it seems almost impossible to get to 100% throttle opening, I had that same problem on my 1199 last year. I suppose the slow ramp-up was intended to make the bike more "mild" at partial throttle for street riding, but for track riding you don't want to have to be at 75% throttle just to get a drive going coming off a turn.

P.S. - Trying the downshift blipper out this weekend too!

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2013RedSabs said:

I would be very disappointed if my Logitech G27 PC Steering wheel uses more advanced software than my 1199. Since it's "throttle" is adjustable.

"Increase the DEADZONE if you feel the throttle is pressed too easily.
Decrease the SATURATION if you feel the throttle in not sensitive enough."

Sometimes they even throw in non-linear ramp rates.

With Fly-by-wire Ducati could include a sub-menu to allow customization.

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Prince Albert said:

Jarel could you post a link to the auto blipper you are using

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Macke said:

First couple of runs was with the Termignoni full titanium system, and no db-killers. We got readings between 97,1 db and 102,3 db when meassuring the "fly-by" noice emission.

Last couple of sessions we did with the same system, and with the db-killers mounted. And the preliminary results was between 96db and 97db "fly-by". But the exact numbers wasn't printed before we had to leave, so the will be sent to us by e-mail in the beginning of this week.

Next thing to try is the MWR air filters that should dampen the intake noice. We are also looking at some way to dampen the noice from the engine itself. Had a quick look at the japan version of the Panigale, where they have different engine casings mounted. When meassuring the static noice, the engine makes almost more noice than the exhausts...

But after that... Well... Who knows...

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Macke said:

So the first "real" test was done today as we just finnished the first of two days of tyre testing with Bridgestone. So, I'm getting a bit more comfortable on the bike now.

The Lightech rearsets are still bothering me a bit, but we got it to an acceptable level know, and I can shift- and downshift comfortably.

The throttle fix hasn't been applied yet, but we have found a company here in Sweden that can reprogramme the OEM ECU, and change the table for the throttle positions. But as for this two-day tyre test, we're stuck with the standard throttle. And I'm getting a bit more used to that aswell. We did a remap of the bike, and the on/off ignition is a bit better, but it needs a bit more work. But the guy helping us with the engine and fuel mapping isn't with ur for the test, so we'll have to send him the logs afterwards, and he will start the work on a new map.

Today we have discovered a couple of new things with the bike. It seems to be leaking a bit of oil here and there. At one of the engine cases, and somewhere under the front cylinder. Not much, just a couple of drops each session, but VERY annoying on a new and rather expensive bike. Asked Ducati about it, but they seem to be under the impression that it is pretty normal on a Panigale. But it seems like we have to take the engine apart and change a few seals.

Second thing we discovered i that we probably gonna need to buy some kind of industrial sized bucket/barrel of threadlock/loctite if we are going to race this thing. Bolts and screws are ratteling loose all over the place. We have lost three screws today (nothing major), and re-torqued screws and bolts after each and every session. Even though they are tightened with spec torque. So now we have started using threadlocker on every screw that rattles loose.

Riding-wise the day has been pretty good. Still not as fast as on the Fireblade, but we are getting there. The impression of the bike is still the same. Light and nimble... We have found a decent setup for the Bridgestones without putting too much effort on it. Racked up about 70 laps today, so I'm starting to get a bit sore in my palms . LOL.

We are trying the softer V02's tomorrow, and hopefully I can get a bit more confidence in the front to start pushing a bit harder mid-turn and get my corner speeds up.

Looking at the datalogger there is a few areas that I need to improve. Very lazy with the throttle, not turning it that last 5-10% in some of the shorter straights (probably still getting used to that longer stroke on the throttle tube). Corner speeds are terrible. In some corners I'd like to get a bit less engine braking, but in a few other I'd like less. So we will be playing around with that tomorrow aswell.

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Red Dawn said:

We got the throttle slop out with a threaded post that was inserted. The results are amazing and eliminates the slop. Very helpful.

I too wish the throw wasn't as long as it is and with Kope in that I've not heard of a remedy without serious electronic changes... Not sure what Westlake is doing, but they must be one of the few that can figure that out and look forward to hearing how.

If you need any ideas, shoot me a PM.

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Kraai said:

Let me know, what you think about the V02's. I have been at Slovakiring last week and have been racing the V02 the whole weekend. I also had trouble with the front with both soft and medium. My friend lost the front and fell. I lost it 2 weeks ago twice, but was able to save it. I did some adjustments last week on the geo of the bike and the front suspension and that helped a lot. What I learned was, that the front "accepts" less load on the front, than with the Pirelli. When it comes to the rear, we returned the Soft tyres, as they were not giving significantly more grip and the Meduim covers mostly the temp range we get here in Europe. Also the Soft was wearing quickly. The rear has tremendous grip for the 5-6 first laps, but after that losing that grip quite a bit. The tyres look ok after a 14 lap race. With a track temp of about 25-30C we startes from the tyre warmers with 1,60 to end up with 1,85, which was significantly too high. At the end of the weekend, we started with the pressure at 1,35 from warmers, which got us on 1,7 during race, which gave us the best grip.

Robin #4

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Macke said:

Well, we didn't get that much time on the V02's as I had hoped due to some mechanical issues on the second day. We ran the V01's the first day, to get a good reference when going to the V02's. Then a weld cracked on the exhaust system, where the O2-sensor for the AIM EVO4 datalogger was mounted. So we had to take everything apart and go find a welder to fix that. So I only got 2 sessions on the V02's the second day.

Judging from those two sessions, I got a really good feeling on the V02's actually. We stayed with the same geometry on the bike as with the V01's, which made it a bit high in the rear (since the V02 rear is a bit bigger than the V01). So that actually meant the the bike was about 4mm more "on it's nose" than it was with the V01's. This made me feel like a might have lost just a little bit traction going out of the corners, but the turn-in was better. We only ran soft tyres both days.

Next test (in a week) we will be trying out different geometry in the bike, to get me a bit more confidence in the front in mid-turn, so I can get my corner speeds up. That is where I'm lacking speed right now compared to when I rode the Honda at the same track last year.

I also need to get used to the different powerband on the Panigale, so I can get on the throttle earlier out of the corners. I am actually surprised by the powerband on the bike. I just thought it might be a bit more grunty, with all the power down low. But it's actually a lot more "peaky" than I thought it would be, almost like riding a two stroke sometimes. And the gearing we used didn't really work in some of the faster corners where I got the "peak" in the powerband right in midcorner on the throttle, causing the bike to step out really quick and somewhat unexpected. Caught me out a couple of times...

What unit did you meassure your preassures in? Because they don't match the numbers that the Bridgstone technicians gave us, at all... As I understood it from those guys, the softer tyre doesn't provide more grip than the medium. It's just for cooler conditions, like the ones we have up here in sweden in the beginning, and at the end of the season. They also explained that the new V02's have an extra belt layer than what the V01's got, so the V02's have a bit harder carcass. So you need to adjust the setting of the bike for that...

Cheers

Macke

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Kraai said:

Regarding the soft tyre, that it is for cold wheather is right, we tested those in the morning, but still had high wearing. Dont recal the temp right now. The carcas is a lot stiffer, than the Pirelli. Makes the tyre comfotable to sit on, compared with the Pirelli What pressure did you use, coming off the track? Will you be in Assen in 2 weeks, we could exchange some data? Can show you my setup then. Pressure was in Bar.

One other thing regarding the front grip/confidence: I got the Marzocchi with TTX inserts. I got the rebound and comp at 11 clicks. Front spring 2x 10,5. I got the preload on the springs now up to 6-7 now. And got the bike up on the front by 2 mm. This solved my problems. This also gave me more traction on the back. I do not recall reb/comp/preload settings for the rear. Will let you know And my weight 82 kg

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Macke said:

I don't remember the preassues on the top of my head. But I got a datasheet at home that we got from the Bridgestone guys. It has all the preassures on it. But we meassure in kilos (Kg/cm2 I guess) so it's slightly higher than the bar numbers.

Sadly we won't be at Assen. We planned to go there, but then I got some family things to take care of, so we had to skip it. I won't be riding the whole BoTT series anyways, so I won't have anything to do with the total championship. So it doesn't matter really, but I would have been run riding at Assen. I've never been there... Maybe next year...

Thanx for your input. We have 2 days of testing planned next week, and will be playing around with the geometry of the bike then, aswell as the engine mapping. Will try to get a smoother power delivery, and get rid of that terrible on/off throttle...

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