- Joined
- Jul 22, 2012
- Messages
- 390
- Location
- Connecticut
Stw, we have one in our group that panics in the corners. He complains that it is his bike not him.. I know it's not the same, but I feel for ya!!!!
Help Support Ducati Forum:
Stw
Former Staff
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2012
- Messages
- 6,381
- Location
- Dallas.Tx
About a year with the core of the group... I think my sensitivity level for this guys antics has risen since my accident.. I know he has always done this and I have been guilty of appeasing him and shrugging it off...so I admit blame also... But now I have to draw a line in the sand and say no more.... I just got off the phone with him.. I told him my feelings and that he needs to modify his style on the next ride or I am out... He said he would
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2012
- Messages
- 390
- Location
- Connecticut
Sometimes a good "One on one" talk can do wonders... Other times...you get the blank stare and he starts talking about re-springing the forks and changing out tires with a different profile.....
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2012
- Messages
- 596
- Location
- moving to nc
About a year with the core of the group... I think my sensitivity level for this guys antics has risen since my accident.. I know he has always done this and I have been guilty of appeasing him and shrugging it off...so I admit blame also... But now I have to draw a line in the sand and say no more.... I just got off the phone with him.. I told him my feelings and that he needs to modify his style on the next ride or I am out... He said he would
are you drinking?
anyway I remember that there is a post in Ducati ms named "the pace" I believe, Is very informative. I'll look for it and if is not copy right I copy it and post it here
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2012
- Messages
- 596
- Location
- moving to nc
here we go I hope is not copy right
THE PACE
The Pace focuses on bike control and de-emphasizes outright speed. Full-throttle acceleration and last minute braking aren't part of the program, effectively eliminating the two most common single-bike accident scenarios in sport riding. Cornering momentum is the name of the game, stressing strong, forceful inputs at the handlebar to place the bike correctly at the entrance of the turn and get it flicked in with little wasted time and distance. Since the throttle wasn't slammed open at the exit of the last corner, the next corner doesn't require much, if any, braking. It isn't uncommon to ride with our group and not see a brake light flash all morning.
If the brakes are required, the front lever gets squeezed smoothly, quickly and with a good deal of force to set entrance speed in minimum time. Running in on the brakes is tantamount to running off the road, a confession that you're pushing too hard and not getting your entrance speed set early enough because you stayed on the gas too long. Running The Pace decreases your reliance on the throttle and brakes, the two easiest controls to abuse, and hones your ability to judge cornering speed, which is the most thrilling aspect of performance street riding.
YOUR LANE IS YOUR LIMIT
Crossing the centerline at any time except during a passing maneuver is intolerable, another sign that you're pushing too hard to keep up. Even when you have a clean line of sight through a left-hand kink, stay to the right of the centerline. Staying on the right side of the centerline is much more challenging than simply straightening every slight corner, and when the whole group is committed to this intelligent practice, the temptation to cheat is eliminated through peer pressure and logic. Though street riding shouldn't be described in racing terms, you can think of your lane as the race track. Leaving your lane is tantamount to a crash.
Exact bike control has you using every inch of your lane if the circumstances permit it. In corners with a clear line of sight and no oncoming traffic, enter at the far outside of the corner, turn the bike relatively late in the corner to get a late apex at the far inside of your lane and accelerate out, just brushing the far outside of your lane as your bike stands up. Steer your bike forcefully but smoothly to minimize the transition time. Don't hammer it down because the chassis will bobble slightly as it settles, possibly carrying you off line. Since you haven't charged in on the brakes, you can get the throttle on early, before the apex, which balances and settles your bike for the drive out.
More often than not, circumstances do not permit the full use of your lane from yellow line to white line and back again. Blind corners, oncoming traffic and gravel on the road are a few criteria that dictate a more conservative approach, so leave yourself a three or four foot margin for error, especially at the left side of the lane where errant oncoming traffic could prove fatal. Simply narrow your entrance on a blind right-harder and move your apex into your lane three feet on blind left turns in order to stay free of unseen oncoming traffic hogging the centerline. Because you're running at The Pace and not flat out, your controlled entrances offer additional time to deal with unexpected gravel or other debris in your lane; the outside wheel track is usually the cleanest through a dirty corner since a car weights its outside tires most, scrubbing more dirt off the pavement in the process, so aim for that line.
A GOOD LEADER, WILLING FOLLOWERS
The street is not a racing environment, and it takes humility, self assurance and self control to keep it that way. The leader sets the pace and monitors his mirrors for signs of raggedness in the ranks that follow, such as tucking in on straights, crossing over the yellow line and hanging off the motorcycle in the corners, If the leader pulls away, he simply slows his straight way speed slightly but continues to enjoy the corners, thus closing the ranks but missing none of the fun. The small group of three or four riders I ride with is so harmonious that the pace is identical no matter who's leading. The lead shifts occasionally with a quick hand sign, but there's never a pass for the lead with an ego on the sleeve. Make no mistake, the riding is spirited and quick in the corners. Anyone with a right arm can hammer down the straights; it's proficiency in the corners that makes The Pace come alive.
Following distances are relatively lengthy, with the straightaways taken at more moderate speeds, providing the perfect opportunity to adjust the gaps. Keeping a good distance serves several purposes, besides being safer. Rock chips are minimized, and the police or highway patrol won't suspect a race is in progress. The Pace's style of not hanging off in corners also reduces the appearance of pushing too hard and adds a degree of maturity and sensibility in the eyes of the public and the law. There's a definite challenge to cornering quickly while sitting sedately on your bike.
New rider indoctrination takes some time because The Pace develops very high cornering speeds and newcomers want to hammer the throttle on the exits to make up for what they lose at the entrances. Our group slows drastically when a new rider joins the ranks because our technique of moderate straightaway speed and no brakes can suck the unaware into a corner too fast, creating the most common single bike accident. With a new rider learning The Pace behind you, tap your brake lightly well before the turn to alert him and make sure he understands there's no pressure to stay with the group.
There's plenty of ongoing communication during The Pace. A foot off the peg indicates debris in the road, and all slowing or turning intentions are signaled in advance with the left hand and arm. Turn signals are used for direction changes and passing, with a wave of the left hand to thank the cars that move right and make it easy for motorcyclists to get past. Since you don't have a death grip on the handlebar, your left hand is also free to wave to oncoming riders, a fading courtesy that we'd like to see return. If you're getting the idea The Pace is a relaxing, noncompetitive way to ride with a group, you are right.
RELAX AND FLICK IT
I'd rather spend a Sunday in the mountains riding at The Pace than a Sunday at the racetrack, it's that enjoyable. Countersteering is the name of the game; smooth, forceful steering input at the handlebar relayed to the tires' contact patches through a rigid sport bike frame. Riding at The Pace is certainly what bike manufacturers had in mind when sport bikes evolved to the street.
But the machine isn't the most important aspect of running The Pace because you can do it on anything capable of getting through a corner. Attitude is The Pace's most important aspect: realizing the friend ahead of you isn't a competitor, respecting his right to lead the group occasionally and giving him credit for his riding skills. You must have the maturity to limit your straightaway speeds to allow the group to stay in touch and the sense to realize that racetrack tactics such as late braking and full throttle runs to redline will alienate the public and police and possibly introduce you to the unforgiving laws of gravity. When the group arrives at the destination after running The Pace, no one feels outgunned or is left with the feeling he must prove himself on the return run. If you've got some thing to prove, get on a racetrack.
The racetrack measures your speed with a stop watch and direct competition, welcoming your aggression and gritty resolve to be the best. Performance street riding's only yardstick is the amount of enjoyment gained, not lap times, finishing position or competitors beaten. The differences are huge but not always remembered by riders who haven't discovered The Pace's cornering pureness and group involvement. Hammer on the racetrack. Pace yourself on the street.-MC
Read more: The Pace - Nick Ienatsch - Motorcyclist magazine
THE PACE
The Pace focuses on bike control and de-emphasizes outright speed. Full-throttle acceleration and last minute braking aren't part of the program, effectively eliminating the two most common single-bike accident scenarios in sport riding. Cornering momentum is the name of the game, stressing strong, forceful inputs at the handlebar to place the bike correctly at the entrance of the turn and get it flicked in with little wasted time and distance. Since the throttle wasn't slammed open at the exit of the last corner, the next corner doesn't require much, if any, braking. It isn't uncommon to ride with our group and not see a brake light flash all morning.
If the brakes are required, the front lever gets squeezed smoothly, quickly and with a good deal of force to set entrance speed in minimum time. Running in on the brakes is tantamount to running off the road, a confession that you're pushing too hard and not getting your entrance speed set early enough because you stayed on the gas too long. Running The Pace decreases your reliance on the throttle and brakes, the two easiest controls to abuse, and hones your ability to judge cornering speed, which is the most thrilling aspect of performance street riding.
YOUR LANE IS YOUR LIMIT
Crossing the centerline at any time except during a passing maneuver is intolerable, another sign that you're pushing too hard to keep up. Even when you have a clean line of sight through a left-hand kink, stay to the right of the centerline. Staying on the right side of the centerline is much more challenging than simply straightening every slight corner, and when the whole group is committed to this intelligent practice, the temptation to cheat is eliminated through peer pressure and logic. Though street riding shouldn't be described in racing terms, you can think of your lane as the race track. Leaving your lane is tantamount to a crash.
Exact bike control has you using every inch of your lane if the circumstances permit it. In corners with a clear line of sight and no oncoming traffic, enter at the far outside of the corner, turn the bike relatively late in the corner to get a late apex at the far inside of your lane and accelerate out, just brushing the far outside of your lane as your bike stands up. Steer your bike forcefully but smoothly to minimize the transition time. Don't hammer it down because the chassis will bobble slightly as it settles, possibly carrying you off line. Since you haven't charged in on the brakes, you can get the throttle on early, before the apex, which balances and settles your bike for the drive out.
More often than not, circumstances do not permit the full use of your lane from yellow line to white line and back again. Blind corners, oncoming traffic and gravel on the road are a few criteria that dictate a more conservative approach, so leave yourself a three or four foot margin for error, especially at the left side of the lane where errant oncoming traffic could prove fatal. Simply narrow your entrance on a blind right-harder and move your apex into your lane three feet on blind left turns in order to stay free of unseen oncoming traffic hogging the centerline. Because you're running at The Pace and not flat out, your controlled entrances offer additional time to deal with unexpected gravel or other debris in your lane; the outside wheel track is usually the cleanest through a dirty corner since a car weights its outside tires most, scrubbing more dirt off the pavement in the process, so aim for that line.
A GOOD LEADER, WILLING FOLLOWERS
The street is not a racing environment, and it takes humility, self assurance and self control to keep it that way. The leader sets the pace and monitors his mirrors for signs of raggedness in the ranks that follow, such as tucking in on straights, crossing over the yellow line and hanging off the motorcycle in the corners, If the leader pulls away, he simply slows his straight way speed slightly but continues to enjoy the corners, thus closing the ranks but missing none of the fun. The small group of three or four riders I ride with is so harmonious that the pace is identical no matter who's leading. The lead shifts occasionally with a quick hand sign, but there's never a pass for the lead with an ego on the sleeve. Make no mistake, the riding is spirited and quick in the corners. Anyone with a right arm can hammer down the straights; it's proficiency in the corners that makes The Pace come alive.
Following distances are relatively lengthy, with the straightaways taken at more moderate speeds, providing the perfect opportunity to adjust the gaps. Keeping a good distance serves several purposes, besides being safer. Rock chips are minimized, and the police or highway patrol won't suspect a race is in progress. The Pace's style of not hanging off in corners also reduces the appearance of pushing too hard and adds a degree of maturity and sensibility in the eyes of the public and the law. There's a definite challenge to cornering quickly while sitting sedately on your bike.
New rider indoctrination takes some time because The Pace develops very high cornering speeds and newcomers want to hammer the throttle on the exits to make up for what they lose at the entrances. Our group slows drastically when a new rider joins the ranks because our technique of moderate straightaway speed and no brakes can suck the unaware into a corner too fast, creating the most common single bike accident. With a new rider learning The Pace behind you, tap your brake lightly well before the turn to alert him and make sure he understands there's no pressure to stay with the group.
There's plenty of ongoing communication during The Pace. A foot off the peg indicates debris in the road, and all slowing or turning intentions are signaled in advance with the left hand and arm. Turn signals are used for direction changes and passing, with a wave of the left hand to thank the cars that move right and make it easy for motorcyclists to get past. Since you don't have a death grip on the handlebar, your left hand is also free to wave to oncoming riders, a fading courtesy that we'd like to see return. If you're getting the idea The Pace is a relaxing, noncompetitive way to ride with a group, you are right.
RELAX AND FLICK IT
I'd rather spend a Sunday in the mountains riding at The Pace than a Sunday at the racetrack, it's that enjoyable. Countersteering is the name of the game; smooth, forceful steering input at the handlebar relayed to the tires' contact patches through a rigid sport bike frame. Riding at The Pace is certainly what bike manufacturers had in mind when sport bikes evolved to the street.
But the machine isn't the most important aspect of running The Pace because you can do it on anything capable of getting through a corner. Attitude is The Pace's most important aspect: realizing the friend ahead of you isn't a competitor, respecting his right to lead the group occasionally and giving him credit for his riding skills. You must have the maturity to limit your straightaway speeds to allow the group to stay in touch and the sense to realize that racetrack tactics such as late braking and full throttle runs to redline will alienate the public and police and possibly introduce you to the unforgiving laws of gravity. When the group arrives at the destination after running The Pace, no one feels outgunned or is left with the feeling he must prove himself on the return run. If you've got some thing to prove, get on a racetrack.
The racetrack measures your speed with a stop watch and direct competition, welcoming your aggression and gritty resolve to be the best. Performance street riding's only yardstick is the amount of enjoyment gained, not lap times, finishing position or competitors beaten. The differences are huge but not always remembered by riders who haven't discovered The Pace's cornering pureness and group involvement. Hammer on the racetrack. Pace yourself on the street.-MC
Read more: The Pace - Nick Ienatsch - Motorcyclist magazine
Stw
Former Staff
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2012
- Messages
- 6,381
- Location
- Dallas.Tx
are you drinking?
anyway I remember that there is a post in Ducati ms named "the pace" I believe, Is very informative. I'll look for it and if is not copy right I copy it and post it here
Thanks..
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2011
- Messages
- 1,187
- Location
- Albuquerque, NM & Bavaria Germany
Good for you!About a year with the core of the group... I think my sensitivity level for this guys antics has risen since my accident.. I know he has always done this and I have been guilty of appeasing him and shrugging it off...so I admit blame also... But now I have to draw a line in the sand and say no more.... I just got off the phone with him.. I told him my feelings and that he needs to modify his style on the next ride or I am out... He said he would
We had a similar guy in our group who prided himself on being used to going fast on the straight but admitted his lack of navigating turns.
I must have given him enough grief since he just completed a track course and is ready for the next level course.
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2013
- Messages
- 435
- Location
- Jacksonville, FL
about a year ago I was putting up with the carbon copy of this guy in my group. I had a 13 hypermotard. me and my 3 buddies have our riding down to a science. coming out of a corner and into a straight at about 80mph exit, I hold steady at about that speed...hand on hip...just cruising for about 5 seconds or so. I look in my mirror and OMG here he comes...hot..very close. I grab my handlebars and he side-swipes me doing about 100. apparently he cant turn while in the throttle. anyway, my left foot was between our 2 bikes as he sideswipes me, breaking 3 bones in my foot and lots of bruises. I got a nasty tank slap as he caught my left handle bars too...luckily I had gotten my hand down to the grip before he impacted my bike and I was able to save myself. I look back and hes tumbling down the road completely knocked out. his bike was totaled. my group always put up with him until that point. everyone knew he was dangerous and we had all asked him (one time I threatened him physically after splitting me and another bike just cruising in the same lane at about 150) and he never listened. he slowed down a bit after my threat and apologized but he still rode like a .......and then this ^ happened. he got another bike and has wrecked 2 times since. I refuse to ride with him. if he shows up to the ride, I tell everyone im out if hes in. he constantly promises to not pass me but I just don't trust him. its just not worth it to ride with someone like that. im lucky all that happened was 2 left pegs missing and 3 broken bones. people like this are not to be ridden with as far as im concerned. they can kill themselves if they want, I don't wanna be there, and especially don't want to be involved with anyone like this. don't ride with that guy anymore!!!
- Joined
- May 31, 2012
- Messages
- 5,510
- Location
- South Florida
keep the group ditch the one guy. i have one guy in my group that i wont ride with anymore. no matter what. all the others in the group feel about the same way.
there are no trophies or cash prizes at the end of the ride. i am always last or close to last that way i can adjust. let the guys go ahead then crack it and im not behind. i like to work on things when i am riding. i dont knee drag or anything on the street but i like to work on body position and play with settings. sometimes im on the phone. getting there 30 seconds faster makes no difference to me .
there are no trophies or cash prizes at the end of the ride. i am always last or close to last that way i can adjust. let the guys go ahead then crack it and im not behind. i like to work on things when i am riding. i dont knee drag or anything on the street but i like to work on body position and play with settings. sometimes im on the phone. getting there 30 seconds faster makes no difference to me .
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2013
- Messages
- 351
- Location
- New York, NY
Wha-Wha-Whaaaaat? Can you really manage a phone conversation with all of that noise? Or rather, can the other person actually hear anything over all of that noise? Does that mean you are also not wearing earplugs?
- Joined
- May 31, 2012
- Messages
- 5,510
- Location
- South Florida
ok i have a sena bluetooth. it is crystal clear when i get people on the phone i tell them i am doing 90 and they dont believe it. i wear custom headphones. they are earplugs. i keep music on low because there is no noise at all. all parties hear fine. there is no road noise at all as i use the wired mic. if you never used a sena i highly recommend it.
Stw
Former Staff
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2012
- Messages
- 6,381
- Location
- Dallas.Tx
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2013
- Messages
- 435
- Location
- Jacksonville, FL
Scala rider G9 works exceptionally well, as well!
Since you have a problem, and I agree, it would be to me as well. Its on you to have a one on one. let him know how serious this really is to you, and tell him if he gets anywhere near him you will hang him out to dry. Point out he lacks skill in the corners and that running up the straights is not cool.
He is only going to dump it and hurt himself and possibly someone else.
We would just leave him in the dust since we don't slow down in the straights, we don't have that many so that kind of problem gets weeded out quickly.
I would never turn back for a fool either.
He is only going to dump it and hurt himself and possibly someone else.
We would just leave him in the dust since we don't slow down in the straights, we don't have that many
so that kind of problem gets weeded out quickly.I would never turn back for a fool either.
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2012
- Messages
- 495
- Location
- Albuquerque, NM
Your choices, if you want to enjoy your ride, are pretty straightforward.
If you want to stay with the group you could:
1) Ride in the back at a moderate pace on the straights so you can enjoy the twisties
2) Ride your ride as best you can and back off when you need to
3) Ride your ride with the group and screw this outlier. If your pace has you stuffing this pudknocker into the turns, then so be it. (I don't recommend this one)
4) Ride your ride in the twisties and wick the crap out of it on the straights. You probably have a significant horsepower advantage and can stay out front if you really want to (I don't recommend this one, either)
Or, form a smaller group and always ride your pace.
I generally chose option 1 or 2 when riding with a larger group (1 is more fun) or the smaller group for spirited rides (usually just me or me with one or two other friends who are legitimately fast and don't need to prove it).
Sometimes I'll jump out front when riding with the group but there's nobody in our normal set who's dumb enough to scream past on the straights and park in the turns (glad Charlie M doesn't live out here ). I'm pretty comfortable with option 4 if need be, as there are few speeds with which I'm uncomfortable, but it can be hard on the pocket book if you catch a radar trap....so be careful with that one.
If you want to stay with the group you could:
1) Ride in the back at a moderate pace on the straights so you can enjoy the twisties
2) Ride your ride as best you can and back off when you need to
3) Ride your ride with the group and screw this outlier. If your pace has you stuffing this pudknocker into the turns, then so be it. (I don't recommend this one)
4) Ride your ride in the twisties and wick the crap out of it on the straights. You probably have a significant horsepower advantage and can stay out front if you really want to (I don't recommend this one, either)
Or, form a smaller group and always ride your pace.
I generally chose option 1 or 2 when riding with a larger group (1 is more fun) or the smaller group for spirited rides (usually just me or me with one or two other friends who are legitimately fast and don't need to prove it).
Sometimes I'll jump out front when riding with the group but there's nobody in our normal set who's dumb enough to scream past on the straights and park in the turns (glad Charlie M doesn't live out here
). I'm pretty comfortable with option 4 if need be, as there are few speeds with which I'm uncomfortable, but it can be hard on the pocket book if you catch a radar trap....so be careful with that one.
Last edited:
Similar threads
Register CTA
Register on Ducati Forum! This sidebar will go away, and you will see fewer ads.
Sign Up
