Honda CBR1000RR-R SP 2024 vs V4R 2023

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Don’t get me wrong, I’m not hating on Ducati, I love them, arguably still the sexiest bike. Although that new Bimoto might have hedged them on that too, the current Fireblade is just a better and more upgradable track weapon.

One thing not being considered here though, and it’s the hidden elephant in the room.

It’s not actually a fair comparison. The Fireblade SP is not fair to compare to a Panigale V4S…it’s Honda’s version of a V4R….so when Ducati comes out with the updated version of the V4R we might all be eating Crow.

But for now, among the updated bikes available the Fireblade SP seems to be king of the pack.
Agreed on all aspects exceeeept the new V4R statement. I think when you see the price of the new V4R you’ll be like “$50k for a base R plus another $10k for options? Plus another $2-3k to track prep (because you think the braking system or suspension is inevitably not enough)! No thanks!” Also, the tech isn’t going to be anything new compared S model. You’re going to have all those electronic nannies but tuned for the 998 cc engine. Ducati is straying away from being an innovation company and becoming an accounting company. Copy paste is the easiest and most efficient way to profitability
 
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Agreed on all aspects exceeeept the new V4R statement. I think when you see the price of the new V4R you’ll be like “$50k for a base R plus another $10k for options? Plus another $2-3k to track prep (because you think the braking system or suspension is inevitably not enough)! No thanks!” Also, the tech isn’t going to be anything new compared S model. You’re going to have all those electronic nannies but tuned for the 998 cc engine. Ducati is straying away from being an innovation company and becoming an accounting company. Copy paste is the easiest and most efficient way to profitability

I agree to some extent. Ducati seems to want to build a brand based on a veneer of a track bike. It is a very capable track bike for a certain level of riding ability, but even at the pointy end of A group I think it’s reached its limits. Which in some ways is brilliant business, that I have to give them credit for. They built a cache around their brand with MotoGP…and then they sell over priced beautiful bikes that have good performance up to a limit. But that limit is above their intended audience.

If you want a sexy street bike that you can tell people that’s it’s a track weapon you can do so credibly with the bike. But for die hard track guys, or a track only dedicated bike, it’s an almost silly option on all fronts, both on price and peak performance capabilities. I think there are very few riders that track a lot where the Ducati hits the sweet spot…it’s either way too much bike for track day guys that are at the slower end of A group and below…or not enough bike compared to the competition for the fastest track day riders. If you are one of those few that are right in the middle between being genuinely fast at track but not quite there yet…and you have a good amount of disposable income so it doesn’t matter to you that you can get the same performance for half the price elsewhere…well in that narrow band of consumers it’s a great option.

Honda on the other hand sells every kind of bike imaginable for every kind of rider. Lots of them and very profitably. So they don’t need to pretend to be something more than they are on a particular model.

Whatever level rider you are and whatever type of riding experience you want they have a model for that. So with their Fireblades they can afford to build a bike that truly is a track weapon with easy to get HRC parts and sell just enough of them to serve that audience and give them exactly what they want at a reasonable price.

There is a REASON Honda sells more bikes than anyone else…they build the kind of bike you want…whatever that may be, and sell it at a fair price and build it with good reliability.

The more I look into them the more I’m becoming a bit of a fan boy of their business model as a Business Analyst by profession.

I admire what Ducati’s doing with their marketing and product development from an Analysts perspective…but as a consumer I prefer to buy from a company like Honda I think.

It’s like the difference between Porsche versus Ferrari buyers historically. If you want good performance and a very sexy brand you buy a Ferrari and have pride that you over paid for the performance level you got because it’s a FERRARI. But if you want incredible performance at a price that’s fair for what you get in a very reliable machine you get a Porsche, and take comfort in knowing that your car is better in almost every way than the million dollar super cars.

Ducati is Ferrari these days.
 
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Yep. Honda also has amazing racing and engineering pedigree. But like you say, they’re pragmatic and driven. They want to provide excellent high-quality products at reasonable prices. That’s basically their mission statement. Since visiting Japan, I get that mentality: to want to perfect things and offer great value to the customers. It’s part of Japanese culture. The buying experience over there is overwhelmingly pleasant. They fawn over the smallest details when you buy something as simple as a piece of fruit. They make sure you’re happy with everything. Literally, if you buy a shirt in Japan you don’t buy the one on the rack. They go to the back and get a fresh one and then it’s wrapped perfectly and they offer it to you like a gift. It’s an awesome experience. And god forbid if something goes wrong. They will bend over backwards to right the wrong.

Quite the opposite of the Italian buying experience. In Italy, it’s almost like you’re inconveniencing them by purchasing from them. And you’re SOL if something goes wrong or there’s an issue which it always seems to happen. And then their customer service is atrocious.

The SO and I are planning another trip to Japan next year for the GP and to tour around for a few weeks. Can’t wait.
 
They want to provide excellent high-quality products at reasonable prices. That’s basically their mission statement.

Half if not more of Honda is being produced by Italian mommy boys. MotoGP team is 90% Italian with a boss sitting in Japan.

Since visiting Japan, I get that mentality: to want to perfect things and offer great value to the customers. It’s part of Japanese culture. The buying experience over there is overwhelmingly pleasant. They fawn over the smallest details when you buy something as simple as a piece of fruit.

Total bollocks. Unless you shop at L&V or Gucci (that are not japanese anyway).

Trying buying a camera or a lens at Yodobashi. They are ....... peddlers, they see you're a foreigner and immediately jack up the price by tax amount. You then ask to give 30% because thats the real price online and they look at your ready to commit seppuku.

maybe Japan was good 30 years ago in 90s, nothing of that left in big cities
 
goes to Japan once...

I have been going to Japan for 2 decades, and if you have been more then once you would understand that your above praises are the exact reason that its in a tough spot these days from Moto GP + WSBK to regular economy. The culture is amazing and beautiful, but it's also crippled in fear of shame and making any sort of decisions that could disrupt anything are never made. Visiting now is amazing and fun and wow the yen is .... so your money goes very far, let's all go to Jackroad and buy Rolexs.... The economy Tokyo is surviving based on tourism from China and Korea post covid, which was shut down for so damn long.

The reasons Japanese OEMs sell more bikes then anyone else is not because of Stevens explanation above, its because that have bene doing it for so long and the brands motorcycle biz are a squirt of piss in there over all business. They make so much industry its mind boggling, this is the residual effect of Japanese culture from the 20th century.

Whats annoying is soapboxing these recent revelations on a ducati forum with a judgmental cadence that you have discovered something remarkable. Hop on 13x and let them know about your discovery, they will make fun of you then get right back to posting about their R1 race bikes...
 
Half if not more of Honda is being produced by Italian mommy boys. MotoGP team is 90% Italian with a boss sitting in Japan.



Total bollocks. Unless you shop at L&V or Gucci (that are not japanese anyway).

Trying buying a camera or a lens at Yodobashi. They are ....... peddlers, they see you're a foreigner and immediately jack up the price by tax amount. You then ask to give 30% because thats the real price online and they look at your ready to commit seppuku.

maybe Japan was good 30 years ago in 90s, nothing of that left in big cities
Who said anything about Honda’s MotoGP bikes??? And how is that relevant to this discussion. Try to keep up.

Also, was just there last year and got treated great. To get treated like a rube, you must look and act like a rube
 
PSA not only is this a Ducati forum where Ducati owners share the love and solve the problems, this discussion has now officially become stupid....

Honda makes a fantastic litre bike, as does Ducati and Yamaha etc, anyone who disagrees can go and suck a Mike Johnson. They are different flavours of ice cream, same base ingredients. Even the thickest fanboy here should understand that as they get passed by a better rider on a different brand. The biggest problem in Ducati fanboy world is all the gear and no idea, and the ill informed belief that the latest bike, electronics, master cylinder or whatever gizmo is going to make them into Rossi.

This thread has passed its use by date, time for the CBR hounds to take the romance over the Honda forums, and for the Ducati haters to find another corner of the net to complain in.
 
you claim in your post is totally false - hence no discussion.
Negative ghostrider but since you brought it up, maybe that 90% Italian team is what’s their problem. No need to copy Ducati. They have 10 team and 19 rider championships to their name under the Japanese leadership. Nothing to shake a stick at. How many GP championships does Ducati have again?
 
PSA not only is this a Ducati forum where Ducati owners share the love and solve the problems, this discussion has now officially become stupid....

Honda makes a fantastic litre bike, as does Ducati and Yamaha etc, anyone who disagrees can go and suck a Mike Johnson. They are different flavours of ice cream, same base ingredients. Even the thickest fanboy here should understand that as they get passed by a better rider on a different brand. The biggest problem in Ducati fanboy world is all the gear and no idea, and the ill informed belief that the latest bike, electronics, master cylinder or whatever gizmo is going to make them into Rossi.

This thread has passed its use by date, time for the CBR hounds to take the romance over the Honda forums, and for the Ducati haters to find another corner of the net to complain in.
Oh c’mon Paul don’t be such a stick in the mud. It’s fun roasting the ignorant. I also enjoy seeing the most popular thread on here is one that’s non-Ducati. It warms the cockles of my heart
 
The biggest problem in Ducati fanboy world is all the gear and no idea, and the ill informed belief that the latest bike, electronics, master cylinder or whatever gizmo is going to make them into Rossi.
Nobody thinks that. People buy a Ducati because they want a Ducati and can afford it. They track a Ducati because they want to and can afford to. Not a big deal and whatever you are riding there’s going to be someone a lot faster (usually a lot younger on something a lot cheaper).

This thread could go into some ‘other bikes’ category but there are enough Ducati owners that are interested in this thread that means it should continue. There’s nothing wrong on a Ducati forum with discussing how it stands up against the competition. 🤷‍♂️
 
Actually they DO think that, so many fragile ego's Ducati world. Ducatis are not expensive, they are not Ferrari's and never will be. No one cares about RC8's CBR's or whatever, this is a Ducati Panigale forum, it says so on the box. The only relevance to other brands is, well ... nothing!
 
Actually they DO think that, so many fragile ego's Ducati world. Ducatis are not expensive, they are not Ferrari's and never will be. No one cares about RC8's CBR's or whatever, this is a Ducati Panigale forum, it says so on the box. The only relevance to other brands is, well ... nothing!
I disagree, but there’s also nothing forcing you to read or be involved in the thread. You can mute it or just scroll on by. 🤷‍♂️
 
Sure, but its more fun triggering the fanboys

This is true.

Side note: If I remember correctly, I was just in your country. Did the OGR trail in 7 hrs on the mtb. Such great trails there! Thoroughly enjoyed NZ! You lot are alright in my books.
 

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