Idle gear (plastic) and primary sprocket failure – 2017 1299 Pani

Joined Sep 2020
1K Posts | 544+
Austin Texas
Oh boy…here we go again…for those of you who remember my last catastrophic failure on the 2012 1199 bike.


So was cruising to my usual weekend spot about 8 weeks ago. Heard some metallic noise from the bike at around 50mph, steady throttle input.
Look down and RIGHT side is billowing smoke.

Pull clutch in immediately, turn off the motor and coast to side of road. Once stopped a ton of smoke from burning oil on exhaust on RIGHT side still, and I can see oil pooling on the ground…....!

Call a buddy to get me trailered home, pull fairing and find what is shown below. I’ve got metal teeth sticking out of case, near the oil cooler.


Dump oil out and get a ton of teeth and debris, both from plastic and metal gear, and what looks to be a spring (more on that later).
Everything was so jammed up behind the casing had to break the cover off in pieces to remove.

Further inspection shows timing chain was un-effected, thank goodness. Main primary sprocket looks good. Clutch gear looks good. Damage appeared confined to the idle gear and small sprocket on the primary.

Dropped oil pan (after removing rear-sets on both sides, and exhaust FML…), and found more debris.

Removed pick up screen and found debris. Cut open oil filter and metal shavings did not appear to make it past this filter so good feeling that top end of motor is good.

Pulled spark plugs and took pictures of piston tops, sidewall and intake/exhaust valves, all looked good, so no oil in top end, or blow by, or anything concerning thank goodness!

@MdDuc shipped me his left over motor from 1299 part out. Many thanks Sir by the way, hope your trip went well!

Spare motor had all the pieces I needed to replace, so that is done and now I’m just reassembling a little bit every night after work. Will time the completion to a day that is ridable.

My plan is to take a very short drive, get oil up to full temp, then dump it once more and see how much more debris or shavings are found….so that info is pending.
Should that be good, ill just pour the oil back into motor and carry on. If still getting debris I plan to flush oil completely, replace filter and repeat as many times as needed.


Overall was a good time with tare down and repair. Learned a lot about the internals of this motor. Seems this small sprocket that broke is slightly out of phase to the main primary, and there are three springs that fit into the small guy that allow the sprocket to shift and line up under power/acceleration. Seems this gear is like a shock absorbing feature, and possibly a noise reduction feature during quick shifts.

No clue what gave way first, but my money is on the idle gear (plastic).

Pics incoming next…

JAG
 
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Hope you get up and running 100% asap JAG!
Thank you for getting that engine out of my gargae!
 
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Did they never make a steel set? What about the R's? I trying to figure out why anyone would do this. If you've got unacceptable gear whine dampen it with the case. Shame on you Ducati.
 
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Bagger, ducati did not, but there are 3rd party aluminum gears for the idler and water pump.

JAG
 
I’m curious, how common is this failure?
Should we swap those out for aluminum ones as preventative maintenance?
 
My mechanic told me they see 1-3 failures per year. My guy in Houston is working on several panigales everytime I talk to him, and hes booked up about 6mo out...
Thats not really hard data though, cant say for sure.

I'm leery about going with aluminum ones as they weigh more...and I am not sure the plastic actually cost any less...there are lightweight plastic for some reason...i'm not personally willing to just disreguard their engineering myself.

JAG
 
Unless the aluminum ones are hard anodized don't bother. The weight difference won't matter. They had to do this for noise? Plastic dampens harmonics. WTF. As part of every major service (15K?) replace gears?
 
Ducati Corse has also made the water pump gears in metal (I don't think they are aluminium) as well as some third parties like Kaemna. I have them in my engine, and as baggerman mnentioned plastics dampen harmonics and vibrations. My experience with them is that they wear out the water pump bearings quicker than the plastic ones, so as the metal does not absorb vibrations the bearings take the vibrations instead and wear quicker.
 
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There are no aluminum gears, only steel.
I caught failing plastic gears on my R right on time and replaced them with Kamnea steel gears.
I absolutely can't understand use of plastic in such a stressful environment with potential for motor destruction when gears fail and they will!!!
 
Every design compromise has only to do with cost, emissions & noise regulations. Manufacturers of any motor vehicle, be it a bike, car, truck or SUV are only trying to meet government regulations while still maintaining profit margins.
 
I replaced the plastic pre-emptively and didn't notice a huge difference in noise. 24000km on them and no additional metal on the magnet and no gears through the casing. I would expect that the plastic gears will degrade over time, especially in that environment. Ducati might have considered how long they should last and it might not line up with how long you think the engine should last.....

Glad the fix has been straight forward.
 
Every design compromise has only to do with cost, emissions & noise regulations. Manufacturers of any motor vehicle, be it a bike, car, truck or SUV are only trying to meet government regulations while still maintaining profit margins.

Any seasoned engineer sitting in the design review knew these would fail. This is a case where the bean counters won. A complete failure of senior management with no excuse.
 
I’d bet that Ducati views these parts as consumable maintenance items when you desmo service every few years
 
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There is no reason anyone should need to be into the bottom ends every few years. If there's nothing in the oil to hurt the bearings, no wear. Only wear is at start-up and synthetic oils have such good cold pour that doesn't matter much. No reason the oil pump shouldn't keep up if all is assembled correctly. I've said this before if I were into one of the V4's I'd pull the under piston head squirters and seal the passage. Those things scare me. The ends of the tubes are swaged down to form the orifice and then they're assembled into the squirter body. Tube falls out, if it doesn't break the motor like Panibadboys R and manages to fall into the sump you still have a hole out of the squirter body that probably 4 times the area of the tubes swaged end with the accompanying loss of oil pressure. Yuck. WTF. They are used to cool the backside of the piston to help control NOX. I find it interesting that Ducati has moved from chromed rocker arms to apparently nitrided ones. That makes the tool steel cams sacrificial to the rockers versus the other way around. So instead of changing rockers are we going to be replacing cams? Sliding friction is sliding friction. I'm starting to put the clown car back together so I put some magnets into the head bolts near the oil return passage to hopefully grab anything being shedded by the valve train so it doesn't end up on the back of the scavenge screens. And I think I'll make my own sump drain bolt with as big a magnet I can get in there to keep gearbox debris off the main scavenge screens under the crank.
 
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