Installation of Calipers

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endodoc said:
Goon point on the vented piston. i would just leave the Brembo engineering alone on this one. There’s absolutely zero benefits to modifying these calipers.
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Well, we have to disagree on this one.

It might not be beneficial for your application, but it could be very beneficial and cost effective for others. Every solution have it's advantage in certain scenario and disadvantage in other scenario.

There are benefits in modifying this GP4-MS caliper for "OTHER" people who prefer to keep their stock Ohlins shocks with the 100mm caliper mounting spacing but want the highest quality MONOBLOCK caliper currently available from Brembo.

When the rider really want to really push it on the track, then they can change the piston to the vented Titanium or Stainless Steel, (which is not hard to do anyway).
And it is also very easy to revert back to aluminum piston with the extra outer seals when they decide to just ride it on the road.
You have to perform all extra maintenance to the bike anyway if you are driving it hard on the track.

This Vented Titanium and Stainless Steel Piston upgrade is not that expensive. (without even comparing to other solutions).

Last, since the 30mm piston is the same size as the stock Stylema, your brake bias will stay exactly the same with the stock bike.
(This might be important for people who is keeping their ABS system as the algorithm of the ABS modes might include the front and rear brake bias as one the parameter)

Fact is Fact:
Titanium and Stainless Steel Piston will transfer less heat (due to the added mass and inherent properties) to the brake fluid right behind it compare to Aluminum piston (First Benefit)
And when they are vented, they will also help increase heat dissipation capability. (Second Benefit)
 
You lost me. Changing out the stock caliper to the MS calipers is not modifying the MS caliper. Secondly your comments are out of context when you are now talking about changing and bettering Brembo’s engineering. If you are that advanced that you need to be concerned about the nuances of brake piston material and the associated thermodynamics of those materials as they apply to the application then you have the wrong caliper. Buy the 100mm 32/36 race caliper with the Ti pistons. There isn’t anymore who is going to buy the MS caliper and swap pistons on track or race day. There going to buy the 32/36. That’s what it’s for. Trying to play nice but sometimes these “scenarios” go from conversation to ridiculous and this one went there. Your brake data and subsequent information is great BMW, it’s just not very relevant to the audience. Leave the calipers alone. Match the system to the right MC and call it a day. Brembo knows what they are doing
 
KarlKani is correct. If you need a more advanced caliper and the MS in its stock configuration isn’t good enough for you, you buy the caliper he listed.
 
KarlKani said:
You can get the XA7.G2.10/11 for 100mm with ti pistons
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Yes, but aren't those track only without possibility of using the road seal? plus they are 32-36 mm piston, while the GP4-MS is 30mm piston all around just like the stock cast Stylema caliper
 
endodoc said:
You lost me. Changing out the stock caliper to the MS calipers is not modifying the MS caliper. Secondly your comments are out of context when you are now talking about changing and bettering Brembo’s engineering. If you are that advanced that you need to be concerned about the nuances of brake piston material and the associated thermodynamics of those materials as they apply to the application then you have the wrong caliper. Buy the 100mm 32/36 race caliper with the Ti pistons. There isn’t anymore who is going to buy the MS caliper and swap pistons on track or race day. There going to buy the 32/36. That’s what it’s for. Trying to play nice but sometimes these “scenarios” go from conversation to ridiculous and this one went there. Your brake data and subsequent information is great BMW, it’s just not very relevant to the audience. Leave the calipers alone. Match the system to the right MC and call it a day. Brembo knows what they are doing
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You lost me too. I am talking about modifying the GP4-MS caliper since this thread is about Chris who have bought the GP4-MS caliper and will install it on his Panigale V4.

What is out of context? You are the first one pointing out this GP4-MS have aluminum piston, and other poster point out they can be upgraded.

It's not really bettering Brembo engineering, the engineering design stay the same, just change the material of the piston which is more suitable for track use.
Similar in concept to changing your brake pads for track brake pads. Or changing your tire to track tire. You don't really change the engineering design, just the material.

Don't over complicated things with the "nuances of words" and thermodynamics of materials. It is just simple facts. Titanium and Stainless are better heat isolating material. That is all to it, and that is Thermodynamics.

You can't be serious that no one willing to buy a GP4-MS caliper and swap piston for their track application. Maybe that person is you, but not everybody think or decide or choose like you.
Those 32/36 race caliper as the word said, only for race, GP4-MS can be easily converted back with the seal for street.

Come on, you post many times here how you change the seal in your race caliper many times... don't tell me, it is difficult to do... all you need is a compressed air... and you can do this while changing your brake pad after track day.

The fact that BrakeTech offer those upgrades to the Stylema and GP4-MS caliper show there is a market for it.
If you disagree, you might want to call Jeff at Braketech, you know him very well from your past applications, right?

Matching the system in Hydraulics is basic... just match the right size piston on the master cylinder to the right size piston on the caliper which will allow the right movement of the piston with the right force.
That is what matching the system. and since we are on this issue, the 30mm piston on the GP4-MS HYDRAULICALLY MATCH all the parameter in the braking system of the Panigale V4.
That is it, Brembo sure know what they are doing , that we can agree on.

I am also trying to be nice, but you always dismissed any other possibility or choice that is not your preferred choice and how you said it... ridiculous...
You know, in internet forum, everyone have their own opinion and its up to the reader of this thread to decide. Some might think you are right, some might think I am right, some might thing we both wrong.
 
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endodoc said:
KarlKani is correct. If you need a more advanced caliper and the MS in its stock configuration isn’t good enough for you, you buy the caliper he listed.
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"STOCK" is the keyword here. You of all people should know because you like to "upgrade from STOCK".
So,... if someone already purchase a GP4-MS caliper and find their "stock" configuration is not good enough, they should just start from scratch with the other caliper?
Why is the GP4-MS is not good enough?
Is it because it cannot handle the heat generated?
Is it because it's "stock" aluminum piston, transfer too much heat to the brake fluid?
well, if the answer is all the above, for a few hundred dollar, you can buy the Ti or Stainless Steel piston for it and that is the most cost effective solution, then scrap their GP4-MS and buy another one.

People who purchase the GP4-MS specifically want a caliper that can be use on the street and on the track, while maintaining stock brake bias with the stock 30mm piston,
so with that in mind, and if that is still the priority, the GP4-MS is the ideal choice.
 
Yep your right. Brembo has built a flagship performance caliper that is “not good enough” You do realize that all over the globe there are guys racing using the stock M50 but somehow you have captivated an audience who needs an upgrade from an even more capable caliper. The MS caliper doesn’t ever need an “upgrade”. No one here is going to “out ride” that calipers capability. No one. Throwing all the data about things that aren’t applicable to the context is the problem. Chris has absolutely no reason to even consider any modifications to those calipers and neither does anyone else. It’s not about opinions and it’s not about thinking someone is a know it all it’s about rational processes and decision making then again I am talking to a guy that has a motorcycle torn apart in his living room. What was I thinking.
 
endodoc said:
Yep your right. Brembo has built a flagship performance caliper that is “not good enough” You do realize that all over the globe there are guys racing using the stock M50 but somehow you have captivated an audience who needs an upgrade from an even more capable caliper. The MS caliper doesn’t ever need an “upgrade”. No one here is going to “out ride” that calipers capability. No one. Throwing all the data about things that aren’t applicable to the context is the problem. Chris has absolutely no reason to even consider any modifications to those calipers and neither does anyone else. It’s not about opinions and it’s not about thinking someone is a know it all it’s about rational processes and decision making then again I am talking to a guy that has a motorcycle torn apart in his living room. What was I thinking.
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Ah, there you are, back to your old mode of personal insult and attack, I know you would not last long of being nice... I mean I heard so much about you from many people here and well, your posts is public,
and everyone can see that each time you post, there are high probability that it will be "explosive" :D

If no one here is going to "out ride" the GP4-MS caliper, then why you wrote this: "If you need a more advanced caliper and the MS in its stock configuration isn’t good enough for you, you buy the caliper he listed."

That is ILLOGICAL because according to you no one here is going out ride the GP4-MS, right, so why then people need to buy the other caliper???
heck, why do you build your 1299 with those fancy race caliper? (that you keep posting the pictures of it at everyone's thread?, don't tell me you are posting those for showing off... because many time, the topic of discussion wasn't even about those fancy race caliper, but of course you always find a way to inject the photos of them... why is that? I mean, it is ok if you just want to show it off)
you are for sure not going to out ride the stock 1299 caliper, right? are you? :p

I bet, that moment you wrote that the GP4-MS have aluminum caliper, you are actually pointing out to every reader that hey look this GP4-MS only have aluminum piston... not Titanium like "endodoc's" fancy race caliper hahaha
Yah, we all know that is your main motive... we all know you and just try to be nice to you.

You see, if an upgrade idea came from you, then for sure it is the greatest upgrade.
But when someone else, post here their idea about an upgrade, then... oh those are not good enough (unless it came from you)...

You can't argue about the fact, that according to thermodynamics (hey you are the one who bring thermodynamics here), Ti and Stainless Steel piston will be better in isolating heat.
and it is so simple, that the main problem with brake fading, fluid boiling is due to heat...
Those are facts and applicable, last time I check, brake still convert moving energy to heat.

You cannot say Chris or any other person has no reason to consider this upgrade,... it is his (and other people) choice and you can't dictate people choice just because the idea did not come from you.

And yes, I am the guy who has a motorcycle torn apart in my living room, but I am also a guy who have functioning brain, and happened to have Chemical Engineering degree so I am pretty sure I understand the simple concept of Thermodynamics,
dare I say, better than you :p

note: did anyone ever challenge you like that? :D
 
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No sir and I concede. Your work shop has much nicer carpet than mine and when it comes to decorating a bike, You sir are untouchable
 
endodoc said:
No sir and I concede. Your work shop has much nicer carpet than mine and when it comes to decorating a bike, You sir are untouchable
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Dear Sir,
I also concede that your work shop is much better equipped than my humble living room and when it come to installing racing grade parts for street bike, You Sir are untouchable.
 
bradp51 said:
really nice chris
I have looked at these. Would be nice if you can get Ti pistons to reduce weight even further. I believe someone in Germany sells pure tech ones which are 30mm dia but not sure if they are meant for these. I tried emailing but no answer. Brembo have told me that the weight of these is 700g each with pads.
If you had the time and some scales would you mind weighing them if you had not already fitted. Cheers
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If you choose to go for the race Brembo 32/34 calipers, you also get to step down to the 320mm narrow band pistabassa rotors for $675/ea. Maintaining the 100mm mounts narrows your options vs what all is available to the guys with 108mm mounts and the Brembo XA7G2A0 100mm race calipers are not equivalent to the 108mm $3800 per caliper XA8d1EO. Keeping the 100mm mounting and you have to compromise which is why the pro-level guys switch to the 108mm mounts. I considered the XA7G2A0 but wanted to maintain the larger rotor, I preferred to keep dust seals, but mostly I figured the nickel finish would really impress all the ladies at the track.
 
Keith, not sure what you are referencing by "stepping down" to 320mm rotors with the XA7G210/11 calipers. I have run a lot of different rotors with these calipers all the way up to 336mm TKs. No issues.
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Additionally you are correct in that the XA7G210 is not equivalent to the XA8d1E0. But that is apples to oranges. The XA8d1E0 is the top of the line 34/38 SBK/GP caliper however the XA7G210 is equivalent to the X973760 which is a 108mm spaced 1pc billet 32/36 Ti piston monoblock. This caliper was the standard sbk 2 pad caliper for years. The calipers are similar externally and the same internally ( pad pocket and rotor slot) to the 100mm XA7G210 except for bolt hole spacing. They also share the same pads as do all the rest of the 108mm spaced calipers in that class. I guess there is something I missed on rotor selection. Interested to hear where the 320 limitation came from or what should physically limit the application to 320 as I am obviously running without issue 330 and larger rotors with this setup and the pad sweep and rotor to slot clearance is dead nuts.
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