So since everyone is goo goo for the proposed carbon bits on the 1299 Vaprorleggera lets take a close look at the swing arm. I have a low mile Baylis 1098R that I have been meaning to put this on but have not gotten around to it. The 1199/1299 (not out yet) is very similar to this except for obviously the shock mount. Personally, this thing scares the crap out of me. The material around the hub area is super thin. Now I have not seen the engineering data on these things so its only observational. For me, on a bike over 200hp, I think i will stick with some sort of metal composition. I have not heard of one of these breaking but then again I can't think they sold that many and what they did sell are probably ridden gingerly but again that is all speculation. Anyhow here are the pics.
Just unboxed the BST Carbon Swing Arm (pics)
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My only concern is if it broke and you end up in 10000000000 bits, is will your insurance would pay up.
Looks beautiful though.
Looks beautiful though.
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With all due respect, I don't think Ducati is offering to sell you certain death by mechanical failure, but I would agree you can't rule that out.
The one I've been looking at is very different to what you are showing there and has an explanation of all sorts of testing procedures around it. This thing is being built with aerospace grade materials, techniques and testing. I'm pretty sure it will be safe otherwise they could never sell it. If they use cf in applications where it can see a couple thousand pounds of thrust during take off, I'm confident it could handle 220 bhp.
I can think of cheaper ways to kill myself.....
The one I've been looking at is very different to what you are showing there and has an explanation of all sorts of testing procedures around it. This thing is being built with aerospace grade materials, techniques and testing. I'm pretty sure it will be safe otherwise they could never sell it. If they use cf in applications where it can see a couple thousand pounds of thrust during take off, I'm confident it could handle 220 bhp.
I can think of cheaper ways to kill myself.....
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I'm not sure I have any idea what you just said but ok. I'm also not sure what your referring to when you say "the one I have been looking at" the what? A computer rendition picture from Ducati? That swing arm in the Ducati literature doesn't exist and when and if it does BST will more than likely be the contractor who makes it. Additionally no one said anything about the structural characteristics of a CF swing arm. I stated my preference not to run one on a 200 + HP bike. I never stated that it could not be done, was not structurally sound or was a bad idea. All of the CF products that are being built for structural applications in cars and bikes are of aerospace quality materials and employe the appropriate manufacturing methods so I'm not sure where your getting your reference material for you comparison. Additionally your comment with respect to thrust is ambiguous. Is this your opinion? And to what particular stressed member and application are you referring to? I'm assuming you have gathered this postulation from some intimate knowledge of structural composites in industrial and aerospace fabrication. No Ducati is not trying to kill anyone sir. Perhaps a more thorough understanding of the post's context may be needed.
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*face palm*
Okay, for starters you are comparing a 1098 component to a 1299. It's old, it's dated, we're in 2016. Carbon production techniques have moved on since the component was produced that you are referencing. Plus I'm certain that Ducati/Audi have put a lot more into R&D for this than just going to BST and saying "make me one of these can you".
You said the one I'm looking at is a render. But so are the wheels and there is a photograph circulating of the 1299 SL with those very wheels and so I'm confident that swing arm, albeit a prototype, does exist.
If it's not a bad idea then why would you not use one unless you thought it was unsafe? Again, this thin material around the hub you state is for a1098 not a 1299 SL.
As for material comparison and a reference to aircraft I was using that to put it's applications into context. Here we have a motorcycle using a carbon fibre, aircraft use that same material for various applications. You don't have to be a pilot or aerospace engineer to understand that in aircraft applications this material would be subject to far greater forces than that of a motorcycle. With that my confidence in this bike and components would be high.
Okay, for starters you are comparing a 1098 component to a 1299. It's old, it's dated, we're in 2016. Carbon production techniques have moved on since the component was produced that you are referencing. Plus I'm certain that Ducati/Audi have put a lot more into R&D for this than just going to BST and saying "make me one of these can you".
You said the one I'm looking at is a render. But so are the wheels and there is a photograph circulating of the 1299 SL with those very wheels and so I'm confident that swing arm, albeit a prototype, does exist.
If it's not a bad idea then why would you not use one unless you thought it was unsafe? Again, this thin material around the hub you state is for a1098 not a 1299 SL.
As for material comparison and a reference to aircraft I was using that to put it's applications into context. Here we have a motorcycle using a carbon fibre, aircraft use that same material for various applications. You don't have to be a pilot or aerospace engineer to understand that in aircraft applications this material would be subject to far greater forces than that of a motorcycle. With that my confidence in this bike and components would be high.
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I know Ducati used CF swing arms in GP for a while. Like Endodoc, I've been in aviation for a long time and seen wide spread use of "exotic materials" like CF reinforced plastics do to amazing stuff, blade/wing design, fuselage builds and the like. I've seen cracks, which in a skin, fuselage, or non-dynamic part is fine and can be repaired. In a dynamic or load baring use, parts get thrown and replaced, which is why helicopter blades are $400k a piece.
In this situation the cheap, works good, lasts long principal applies. A $10k slide due to oil on the track would sully the experience for me. I rather buy $10k in hookers and beer...lol.
I'm more interested in material behavior, will it feel and flex like metal? Esthetically, how will it look?
In this situation the cheap, works good, lasts long principal applies. A $10k slide due to oil on the track would sully the experience for me. I rather buy $10k in hookers and beer...lol.
I'm more interested in material behavior, will it feel and flex like metal? Esthetically, how will it look?
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Carbon swingarms have been used on various GP machines for several years now. I think they can make them perform just fine. But they also have several of them in the garage and likely just swap them after crashes. I would be curious what dimensions the swingarm used in the new bike are going to be though. Whether they lengthened it like the corse bikes use or not.
Cool bit of kit though. I had only heard of the carbon BST swingarm, but never saw anyone actually take possession. The question I have is whether it's any lighter than any of the mag swingarms that you could get your hands on for the 1198 series.
Cool bit of kit though. I had only heard of the carbon BST swingarm, but never saw anyone actually take possession. The question I have is whether it's any lighter than any of the mag swingarms that you could get your hands on for the 1198 series.
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Endodoc, did you ever do a build thread on your machine? Would be cool to learn more about it if you were willing to. Thanks for your contributions to the forum either way.
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No way endodoc!!!
DUDE !!!!!
You have no idea how long Ive been wanting one of those swing arms my man!!!
Looked at them years ago and just could never justify the cost!
No way avoid, that thing is absolutely priceless and Id jump on it if I could afford it on VA Disability - which we all know is a total joke! LOL.
You should definitely mount that bad boy and use it Endo!!
How friggin sharp would that gorgeous piece of art look on this show bike?
After all, thats all it is - a Show Bike only due to not riding it in over a year!
DUDE !!!!!
You have no idea how long Ive been wanting one of those swing arms my man!!!
Looked at them years ago and just could never justify the cost!
No way avoid, that thing is absolutely priceless and Id jump on it if I could afford it on VA Disability - which we all know is a total joke! LOL.
You should definitely mount that bad boy and use it Endo!!
How friggin sharp would that gorgeous piece of art look on this show bike?
After all, thats all it is - a Show Bike only due to not riding it in over a year!
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DUDE !!!!!
You have no idea how long Ive been wanting one of those swing arms my man!!!
Looked at them years ago and just could never justify the cost!
No way avoid, that thing is absolutely priceless and Id jump on it if I could afford it on VA Disability - which we all know is a total joke! LOL.
You should definitely mount that bad boy and use it Endo!!
How friggin sharp would that gorgeous piece of art look on this show bike?
After all, thats all it is - a Show Bike only due to not riding it in over a year!
Too bad it's not the right one for your bike Gunny. Otherwise I'm sure Endo would be happy to donate it to the cause.
It's a nice piece. It will look nice on the Bike. For me it's functional I guess. When I had the Ti rear axle assembly made that took a decent amount of weight off the most outward sprung weight of the rear. I have the RAM magnesium hub,Light weight drive, rear caliper and rotor assembly and that does a lot to offset the weight savings of the CF swingarm. I'm not sure anyone is committed to the CF swingarm for the 1199/1299 except in sales literature. It's certainly not going to be a big seller if it makes it into some sort of production. I personally would not mind digging into a swingarm build but it would be some sort of welded sheet metal conglomeration.
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