Marchisini S rims VS BST Carbon rims

hi

i havnt seen this conversation spoken about yet, so i thought ill start one up.
i'm very curious what people really think. i know some people purchase the base model and added bst carbon which of cause will give great results in performance. but the question is S model rims 3spoke vs the BST carbon fibre rims.

i only know a few that have puchased it for the S or Tric but not have giving us there feedback.

is bst carbon rims really that good over the S rims?

I am a BST owner and I installed it on my 848 with cast aluminum wheels and the result is night and day. I talked about it so much that a friend who has an 1198s also did the mod. He said that the improvements are there but he is not as happy as I am. there is a difference in agility but not not so much. I was surprised to here this and as I read the specs of the 1198s, it is already equipped with a light Forged Marchesini. so the difference of the gyroscopic effect is not as significant when BST's were compared to cast aluminum wheels.

the 1199s' triangular wheels were dubbed to be a pound lighter than the one's installed in the previous 1198s and if you look at the BST's offering for the 1199's , it is still the same 7 spoke design.

with friend's experience and mine, I can say that if you are ridding a base Panigale with cast wheels, the BST will make a lot of difference but if you are already ridding the S or the Tricolore with the light triangular wheels, the difference will be minimal since the rim provided is already very good.

concur

desmodromic system said:

I am a BST owner and I installed it on my 848 with cast aluminum wheels and the result is night and day. I talked about it so much that a friend who has an 1198s also did the mod. He said that the improvements are there but he is not as happy as I am. there is a difference in agility but not not so much. I was surprised to here this and as I read the specs of the 1198s, it is already equipped with a light Forged Marchesini. so the difference of the gyroscopic effect is not as significant when BST's were compared to cast aluminum wheels.

the 1199s' triangular wheels were dubbed to be a pound lighter than the one's installed in the previous 1198s and if you look at the BST's offering for the 1199's , it is still the same 7 spoke design.

with friend's experience and mine, I can say that if you are ridding a base Panigale with cast wheels, the BST will make a lot of difference but if you are already ridding the S or the Tricolore with the light triangular wheels, the difference will be minimal since the rim provided is already very good.

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As one of those Tri owners who made the switch to BST, I must concur with the above statement regarding the "performance aspect", although differ regarding "looks" alone. Very big investment for looks alone unless you obtain them gratis such as I did. Weight savings was only 3.5 lbs.

So base to BST or ? becomes the question, based on looks. I like the Marchesini anand the OZs, so a difficult choice!

I went with the Marchesini forged magnesium wheels, dropped 8 lbs (5 rear, 3 front) off of my base Panigale. That's a big enough change that virtually anyone can feel in how the bike turns. I like the look of carbon wheels, but I chose to stick with the forged wheels for durability.

The S wheels? How are they priced compared to the BST? The BST is ilke 14 lbs, and the Marchesini is 16.

No, the S wheels are forged ALUMINUM, the racing wheels are forged MAGNESIUM, which are about 2-3 lbs. lighter.

About 2k - 2.5k for those rims brand new
3.5k for bst carbon

I looked around
Weight for s wheels in total is 6.1kg. its 2.1kg lighter then base and .4kg lighter thrn 1198 s.
Bst carbon in total is 5.3kg. In other words 2 pounds lighter.

I think the 3 spoke they really did perfect the weight. To bad no magnesium choice 3spoke. Then mag would be about the same weight as carbon

I have the forged magnesium OZ five spoke wheels on bike as light as the BST 's .

I found the this on another forum:

Stock wheels
12.00 lbs. rear
9.05 lbs. front

Marchesini 10 spoke Forged Magnesium wheels
6.95 lbs. rear
6.35 lbs. front


.

I posted the exact weights of stock wheels off my Tri weighed after tires removed from a scale at dealer. Also weighed BST wheels. Think I posted on 1199 Panigale forum or here, don't recall. But that is as accurate as you'll get.

BlueBear said:

is bst carbon rims really that good over the S rims?

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Buy what you like visually. Unless you're casey stoner (or a high level racer), you will not be able to tell the difference between BST Carbons and the S rims (or the other high-end aluminum/magnesium offerings from others). It is rotational mass but the difference is 1/2lb or less. You'll end up saving more rotational mass from changing rotors out (about 1lb difference) from a performance perspective, but thats spending the same amount as the wheels and far less sexy. . ..

Exactly. It doesn't make you a better rider, it just trading you pocket book for the look, or perception of weight difference if swapping out the S wheels. The physics of it however, assimg all the savings is at the circumference of a 17" wheel, at 100 mph 1 ounce equals 25 pounds of rotational mass.

Trauma said:

Exactly. It doesn't make you a better rider, it just trading you pocket book for the look, or perception of weight difference if swapping out the S wheels. The physics of it however, assimg all the savings is at the circumference of a 17" wheel, at 100 mph 1 ounce equals 25 pounds of rotational mass.

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C'mon trauma - you need to stop taking mathematical shortcuts and assume all the weight difference is at the outer edge of the wheel. I expect you to determine the weight differences between the wheels and calculate the moment arm of the weight differences as it goes to the outer part of the wheel and its affect to overall rotational mass - then translate that to performance <kidding>

Actually I have heard that the BST's might actually have an ever so slight advantage in its construction to give less perimeter weight as compared to central hub weight - but that also doesn't translate to the entire weight difference to be on the outer edge of the wheel.

But yes, in 99.9% of the cases - the objective of purchasing BST wheels would be purely visually over the other performance rims. There is a much larger gain over the base cast wheels though. And while that difference /should/ be much more noticeable - the ability of most riders to even determine that difference is probably quite small.

Ha!! Why I am working this, I am trying to justify the expense and some point when I stop buying all the other crap for this money pit called a Panigale. I am at the base wheel, so either one would make a big difference. Added to that, I went the matte look on my CF parts, and BST has a matte option, which I haven't even seen.... BTW, loved your blog/post, and dream of doing something similar someday.

Trauma said:

Ha!! Why I am working this, I am trying to justify the expense and some point when I stop buying all the other crap for this money pit called a Panigale. I am at the base wheel, so either one would make a big difference. Added to that, I went the matte look on my CF parts, and BST has a matte option, which I haven't even seen.... BTW, loved your blog/post, and dream of doing something similar someday.

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You might be well served finding a used set of S Marchesini's... Might be more affordable than aftermarket and very light!

Tom

tholstro said:

You might be well served finding a used set of S Marchesini's... Might be more affordable than aftermarket and very light!

Tom

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Another option, great. BTW, my Dad grew up and Sherman, ended up working for the Frisco railroad in Springfield MO.

Gunny Fitz said:

I posted the exact weights of stock wheels off my Tri weighed after tires removed from a scale at dealer. Also weighed BST wheels. Think I posted on 1199 Panigale forum or here, don't recall. But that is as accurate as you'll get.

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Found your post, not that I'm stalking you are anything

"Hey jarel. Guess you can disregard my previous question on your wheels. Were those off the base model? When I changed mine out and weighed them at shop they were a lot lighter than yours! I only lost total of 4 lbs by going to C.F. BSTs man.
Love the gold look! "

Trauma said:

I found the this on another forum:

Stock wheels
12.00 lbs. rear
9.05 lbs. front

Marchesini 10 spoke Forged Magnesium wheels
6.95 lbs. rear
6.35 lbs. front


.

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The BST are:
5.97 rear
5.48 front
This includes all the hardware (hub, bearings, spacers and all fittings)

Going from Base wheels (cast aluminum) to BST was a no brain drain for me. Best mod I've ever done to a bike.

If you are going from the S wheels (forged aluminum) to anything else such as BST carbon fiber or forged magnesium you will be hard pressed to depart with $3000 to $4000 dollars to save 3-4 pounds. That's almost $1000 per pound. Keep the S wheels and change to a shorai battery for $168 and that will save you 4 pounds. It's not rotating mass buts it's still less weight which should be everyone's goal if they want to go faster and Have better handling. Unless you really really really don't like the look of the S wheels stick with them because they perform very well. Going to CF or forged mag you will notice the difference in performance between them and the S wheels. You don't have to be Rossi to see/feel the difference in performance (handling, accelerating, braking and suspension ride)

My recommendation are:

If you are a serious track rider trying to improve on your lap times then go with the exotic wheels. Well worth the extra money. I hear some tracks are banning CF wheels for track days. So forged mag might be the way to go. It's not because of reliability issue it's because everything has their breaking point and when CF reaches its breaking point it shatters and they don't want the chards left on the track where as forge magnesium and forge aluminum just snaps easier to clean off the track.

If you are a canyon slasher or track day enthusiast the S wheels are more than good enough.

If you have the base wheels and primary use is for street riding or ocassional track day for fun their good enough.

If you want bling go with CF looks cool and more modern IMHO.

about buying BST's because of looks.

A few years ago the 7 spoke design is really cool!! plus the shine of carbon fiber rims in the parking lot is really something else. but fast forward four years, the look of the 7spoke deisgn is starting to look "dated". It looks ok but the shape no longer envokes the reaction of "wow" or "ooohh". after a year of owning my Diavel I was so happy to receive an email that they are offering BST's for my second bike but to my dismay, it is the same 7 spoke design that I have installed on my 848 2 years ago!!

It is time for BST to provide a new shape or design to keep their products interresting. I mean look at the new 1199s wheels, it looks so freaking awesome. it looks very modern and so "2012"

Now if you were like me who had heavy cast aluminum wheels, the performance gain is night and day. and I mean it. It will feel as if your bike dropped 50lbs at speeds from 60mph and up. but if you ahve the light S wheels already installed and would like to change because of looks, imho, the S wheels look so much cooler. but if you manage a professional racing team or you are an expert rider, then saving lbs from rotational mass can mean from .5 seconds advantage to 2 seconds advantage.

Will I buy it once my S comes? not any more.