Motorcycle USA Shootout

Vicious said:

I spanked up on a beemer all day yesterday. Thats ........! Dont get me wrong when the straight aways came he caught back up. But when the turns came I lost him just as fast. Last year I rode 1098 and he 1198 and I couldnt shake him (he's 65 lbs lighter too). This new bike is amazing. Very, Very, satisfied!

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TBF wouldn't that be more down to you than the bikes as both of these bikes, scratch that - any of these bikes, are overkill on the road and no one short of a pro racer is going to get the best out of them on the road or track.

Rickety said:

The BMW has been winning all the reviews so no surprise there. What REALLY surprised me is the CBR came in second. Now that is a shocker.

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The current Blade has been the overall winner since inception, often winning both road and track tests. A testament to how right Honda got it from the get go. I plan on getting one of these soon as a second track bike. Really amazed at how they hold up against the latest and greatest despite their tech. Funny thinking that Honda is the least overtly technologically advanced motorcycle yet they seem to be able to still trump the new establishment on many fronts if not all.

rm4two said:

I call BS on most of this comparison. I now have 300+ miles on my base and I consistently get better gas mileage than what they are reporting. Maybe they were riding around all day at 9k rpm? Second, If they were testing with all of the electronic aides disabled why not use the base model, that way it would have fared better in the "MSRP" category. Lastly, finishing second to the BMW, fine I can live with that but third to the Honda? Are you kidding me?

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Ducati seems to be only allowing the S model for testing at the moment. It's normal practice, esp. if you consider what Aprilia always brings to the table, the top spec bike never the base models.

Phil said:

well, i am happy in every gear ;-) don't give 5 cents about these reviews. you will ride the bike once and immediately love it for eternity.

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M-USA always give good reviews but I concur with your POV; I've yet to own a motorcycle that after lusting and buying it didn't make me happy.

Hi, My first post, was going to wait till I picked up a Base non ABS but I'd like to chime in: I've ridden both the CBR 1000 and BMW. The Honda has absolutely no character whatsoever! the BMW was awesome and fit me perfectly but I chose the 1199 as my next bike as I like to own and ride something that is more exclusive.For a first year model coming in third against BMW and Honda is quite an accomplishment.

true!
and welcome to the forum!

1stduc1199 said:

Hi, My first post, was going to wait till I picked up a Base non ABS but I'd like to chime in: I've ridden both the CBR 1000 and BMW. The Honda has absolutely no character whatsoever!

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I read and hear this a lot but what exactly does it mean? The Honda doesn't have the v-twin rumble? Sure, but then it would be more accurate to say 'v-twins have more character'. Does 'no character' mean it doesn't have any idiosyncrasies? Does 'no character' mean that it doesn't scare you?

For a first year model coming in third against BMW and Honda is quite an accomplishment.

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Eh, I don't 100% agree with the comparo results but I don't think 3rd place is ever something to crow about.

GIrish said:

I read and hear this a lot but what exactly does it mean? The Honda doesn't have the v-twin rumble? Sure, but then it would be more accurate to say 'v-twins have more character'. Does 'no character' mean it doesn't have any idiosyncrasies? Does 'no character' mean that it doesn't scare you?

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Honda's boring wrap comes from their own success and their singled minded focus of selling to the masses. There isn't one sportbike that is everything to all people, but Honda tries to build their bikes to appeal to as many as possible. In doing so their bikes become boring. Their not the fastest or slowest, lightest of heaviest, best handling or worst, etc. Good at everything but the master of nothing. They are just good all around bikes that anyone can get on and ride right away. However, as a result there's nothing that puts a smile on your face either; nothing to brag about and yes no "idiosyncrasies".

Ducati still being a boutique builder of sorts is focused on racing. They believe in win on Sunday sell on Monday; so their sportbikes are built to win races first and good street bikes second. As a result their bikes have “character”

rm4two said:

Honda's boring wrap comes from their own success and their singled minded focus of selling to the masses. There isn't one sportbike that is everything to all people, but Honda tries to build their bikes to appeal to as many as possible. In doing so their bikes become boring. Their not the fastest or slowest, lightest of heaviest, best handling or worst, etc. Good at everything but the master of nothing. They are just a good all around bikes that anyone can get on and ride right away. However, as a result there's nothing that puts a smile on your face either; nothing to brag about and yes no "idiosyncrasies".

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Perfect, could not have said it better myself. My wife rides a Repsol and it is just a perfect bike but...
The Ducati makes my heart skip a beat. Call it what you want it's like having an affair with the hottest sexiest woman in the world who is also an ax murderer. You taking a hell of a chance, but what the hell.

Look at Honda's dyno graph, no peaks and valleys, it's damn near perfect. Only the Bimmer has a better graph and if it wasn't for its outrageous top end (dare I say it) we might be saying the Bimmer is "boring"?

I just traded my 12 s1000 for the duke. Reason? Well the BMW is definitely faster than the duke. It also easier to ride I.m.o. however the duke is something special and it makes me feel special. The looks and sound are something else! I just can't believe it's road legal. My friends jaw dropped when he saw her. It dropped even further when I started her. I was smiling in my helmet as I rode off thinking I KNOW he wants this bike. Next set of traffic lights he pulls up beside me. I look at him and blip the throttle while winking. Bas*ard I see him say. he rides 08 blade.

I think what one buys and what one's criteria are will determine which is the best bike. Everything else immaterial. These tests are merely input into the personal decision-making process and should be seen as such.
For example, if I wanted a bike that I could commute on day-in and day-out in traffic in addition to carving up the twisties, I might not have (would not have) picked the 1199.
However, I am not into pinning it to see how fast it will go as my primary criteria; I don't care about riding in traffic becuase there is none around here; this is my second bike; I did not want an inline four (had many of those); and, I wanted it to be exceptional and beautiful as well as functional. And so, that is what made it the best bike for me right now and I am VERY happy with my choice.
I look forward to many years of learning to ride it better, because it is far more capable of a bike than I am a rider and it will likely remain that way for a long time.

Styler said:

I think what one buys and what one's criteria are will determine which is the best bike. Everything else immaterial. These tests are merely input into the personal decision-making process and should be seen as such.
For example, if I wanted a bike that I could commute on day-in and day-out in traffic in addition to carving up the twisties, I might not have (would not have) picked the 1199.
However, I am not into pinning it to see how fast it will go as my primary criteria; I don't care about riding in traffic becuase there is none around here; this is my second bike; I did not want an inline four (had many of those); and, I wanted it to be exceptional and beautiful as well as functional. And so, that is what made it the best bike for me right now and I am VERY happy with my choice.
I look forward to many years of learning to ride it better, because it is far more capable of a bike than I am a rider and it will likely remain that way for a long time.

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Yes but it must be accurate information and or opinionated info from a credible source. Most dealerships don't allow test rides so these comparison are valuable sources of info for some. If you gave these bikes to Ricky Gadson and asked him to take each down the 1/4 a few times then posted the numbers and asked him to give his opinion, that would certainly go farther and be more meaningful than some arbitrary journalist saying a bike was unexpectedly slow because it only ran xxx in the 1/4. Journalist should write and professionals should ride.

GIrish said:

I read and hear this a lot but what exactly does it mean? The Honda doesn't have the v-twin rumble? Sure, but then it would be more accurate to say 'v-twins have more character'. Does 'no character' mean it doesn't have any idiosyncrasies? Does 'no character' mean that it doesn't scare you?


Eh, I don't 100% agree with the comparo results but I don't think 3rd place is ever something to crow about.

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3rd place is podium, Not bad, we expected first place above the Bmw but its not happening, The BMW is THAT good.
Riding a CBR1000 was too smooth, too quiet,too perfect sort of speak, BORING!! No character, Midrange power that all.I'm currently on an 09 R1 that I modified by shaving off 30 lbs and added 10 H.P. with bolt ons etc. Not the fastest but boy is it fun to ride with an exhaust note that is sick.

I still haven't seen a magazine test of the 1199 where they bothered to change the shock linkage from F to P. I believe that would make a difference in the final ranking. My dealer's demo unit came from the factory set to F and I rode it before and after they changed it to P, and there was a definite difference. The back felt more composed which gave me more confidence getting into turns hard. I know mags have a policy of testing bikes as delivered from the factory, but suspension on a sportbike has numerous adjustments for a reason, and even small adjustments can have a big effect on handling and feel. Back in 2009 when I got my 1198 a simple change of adding 6mm of rear ride height made a world of difference handling wise.

rm4two said:

Honda's boring wrap comes from their own success and their singled minded focus of selling to the masses. There isn't one sportbike that is everything to all people, but Honda tries to build their bikes to appeal to as many as possible. In doing so their bikes become boring. Their not the fastest or slowest, lightest of heaviest, best handling or worst, etc. Good at everything but the master of nothing.

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Well, when the current generation of 1000RR came out, it was the lightest and best handling 1000. That's why even 4 years later it's still doing well against its competition. If you were talking about the 2004-2007 then yeah I'd say it was more of a jack of all trades and a bit too street-biased.

rm4two said:

They are just good all around bikes that anyone can get on and ride right away. However, as a result there's nothing that puts a smile on your face either; nothing to brag about and yes no "idiosyncrasies".

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I disagree, I got plenty of smiles from riding my CBR. I could push it to the limit of my abilities on track and it gave enough feedback that I could always gather it up and keep on having fun. On the street I never had it give me issues, other than the once or twice I left the lights on. I'd ride it in the rain, road it 9 hours to Indianapolis for the GP, rode it in 29 degree weather, and it never once let me down. And if I decided to apply full military power it would eat up the horizon with ease. I was sad to sell it.

Styler said:

I think what one buys and what one's criteria are will determine which is the best bike. Everything else immaterial. These tests are merely input into the personal decision-making process and should be seen as such.
For example, if I wanted a bike that I could commute on day-in and day-out in traffic in addition to carving up the twisties, I might not have (would not have) picked the 1199.
However, I am not into pinning it to see how fast it will go as my primary criteria; I don't care about riding in traffic becuase there is none around here; this is my second bike; I did not want an inline four (had many of those); and, I wanted it to be exceptional and beautiful as well as functional. And so, that is what made it the best bike for me right now and I am VERY happy with my choice.
I look forward to many years of learning to ride it better, because it is far more capable of a bike than I am a rider and it will likely remain that way for a long time.

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This is exactly what I'm getting at. Styler has some objective criteria that made him choose the Ducati. I hear people say 'Japanese bikes have no soul' or the 'Ducati has character' or whatever like there's some magical quality that can't be measured. I just don't buy that.

I think what's going on is that people have an emotional response to Ducatis for a couple of identifiable reasons:

• v-twin sound
• styling
• exclusivity
• marketing, brand identity
• the halo of Italian performance that Ferrari and Lamborghini created that Ducati benefits from

So if someone says that Ducatis have much more sexy, emotional styling language and that v-twin supersports are more fun, I'd agree. I also totally understand why someone would want something that not everyone has. But when people say stuff like, 'the Japanese bikes have no passion' I'm like ehh... I guess it's because when I've heard it said, it comes off snobbishly.

1stduc1199 said:

3rd place is podium, Not bad, we expected first place above the Bmw but its not happening, The BMW is THAT good.
Riding a CBR1000 was too smooth, too quiet,too perfect sort of speak, BORING!!

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I don't see how having a bike that does what you want it to do, has a solid power band, very good handling, very good fueling, and still blasts down a straight can be boring. It let's you focus on going fast, not fussing with a wonky shifter, or thinking about how your foot is getting roasted by the exhaust, or worrying about how bad the headshake is gonna be on the next lap.

sqd8r said:

M-USA always give good reviews but I concur with your POV; I've yet to own a motorcycle that after lusting and buying it didn't make me happy.

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Motorcycle USA's statistics are almost always off, their dyno's, quarter mile times, and even specs. I don't like them at all. If you look at their liter bike shootout, notice the quarter mile times, ALL bikes, minus the S1000RR had quarter mile times above 11 seconds, if that's the case, than my 848 was faster than them all at 10.8 seconds. Even amateur videos on Youtube have proven to be better than Motorcycle USA's "Professional Reviews". I dont trust them at all. I would rather read up on MCN.com or Sportrider Magazine. MCN is not partial towards any specific manufacturer and will give you the "unbiased" positives and negatives of each bike.

No love for the zx10

these shootouts are stupid...lol

elitesoldier357 said:

Motorcycle USA's statistics are almost always off, their dyno's, quarter mile times, and even specs. I don't like them at all. If you look at their liter bike shootout, notice the quarter mile times, ALL bikes, minus the S1000RR had quarter mile times above 11 seconds, if that's the case, than my 848 was faster than them all at 10.8 seconds. Even amateur videos on Youtube have proven to be better than Motorcycle USA's "Professional Reviews". I dont trust them at all. I would rather read up on MCN.com or Sportrider Magazine. MCN is not partial towards any specific manufacturer and will give you the "unbiased" positives and negatives of each bike.

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Dyno results are only as good as they are taken on the day. This is common knowledge. At best they provide a baseline but it would be silly to expect dyno results to match other mags or even another run on another day from the same group and same bikes.

1/4 mile times are overall redundant unless you are racing but again they will vary based on day, temps, track temps, and rider. There are a lot of other factors influencing a drag strip run than just the rider.

Finally MCN and M-USA both recieve sponsorship from the industry. Anytime anyone doesn't like a review they always mention the sponsors...
How do you explain the MCN review by Hodgson... is he on the BMW payroll.