- Joined
- Feb 11, 2012
- Messages
- 8,138
- Location
- here
Help Support Ducati Forum:
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2013
- Messages
- 979
- Location
- State of Jefferson
I get what Carl8808 and topolino are saying about the design, but there's no getting over the huge dip in the dyno curve. It's been rumored for some time this is because of the exhaust design, and if someone has an exhaust that can cure this, it would provide a significant improvement over existing options. As short as it appears, it doesn't seem as though it would change the mass centralization much if at all.
I for one would love to have that mid-range hole in the dyno curve filled in, and I wouldn't mind the looks of this too much if it did that effectively. Of course, I got the RotoBox RBX2 wheels (because they are lighter than BST's) so my taste is already quite suspect.
As an engine builder, I have found that cam profile and timing, along with compression and fuel curve have much more effect on power delivery and torque curve than exhaust, making your exhaust primary's smaller to boost midrange is a bandaide at best, and at worst will hurt your top end. I have to give Ducati some credit for knowing what they're doing, the factory race exhaust dimensions weren't arrived at via the WAG method. (Wild Assed Guess)
Thanks for the insight. Why did they leave the curve this way for the OEM bike? My dyno chart is with the Termi slips, up-map and MWR filter and is one of the smoother looking 1199 graphs I've seen with great top end. However, that big dip is just annoying as hell when you consider the OEM curve of an S1000RR.
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2013
- Messages
- 133
- Location
- Roslyn, NY
I get what Carl8808 and topolino are saying about the design, but there's no getting over the huge dip in the dyno curve. It's been rumored for some time this is because of the exhaust design, and if someone has an exhaust that can cure this, it would provide a significant improvement over existing options. As short as it appears, it doesn't seem as though it would change the mass centralization much if at all.
I for one would love to have that mid-range hole in the dyno curve filled in, and I wouldn't mind the looks of this too much if it did that effectively. Of course, I got the RotoBox RBX2 wheels (because they are lighter than BST's) so my taste is already quite suspect.
MWE Filters, SS pipe, Termi cans, Ducati Evo Up-Map = NO MID-RANGE DIP!
And im 6'1" 260lbs, so its got some weight to push!
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2013
- Messages
- 133
- Location
- Roslyn, NY
Major prob is Cyl 1 running richer than Cyl 2 due to air flow in intake. This makes low and mid suffer because the electronics try and compensate.
MWE filter w/blocking plate is the solution.
I dont work for them, I didn't know them before I bought it, but it is BY FAR the best bang for your buck!
My .02
Pics or it didn't happen
My dyno graph provided is the Termi slips + Up-Map + MWR HE Filter. I'm quite happy with the top-end results but I wish the graph was as linear as the S1000RR so that "rush" up at the top was more rear-traction friendly. So your setup difference is the SS pipe and the EVO Race Up-Map. I wish we lived closer so we could both be on the same dyno on the same day and I could overlay the graphs to get a better idea of what the improvement would be.
As it stands, I don't have enough information to pull the trigger on $1,500+ worth of headers. How much did you get the SS headers and Evo Race map for?
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2013
- Messages
- 979
- Location
- State of Jefferson
I really have to believe it's related to emissions / EPA crap, bumping up the compression 2 or 3 points and giving it the fuel it wants would really perk things up in the middle, these things are already stupid fast as it is. But more is better.
I'd be really interested to hear from some of the racers on here who have done extensive engine internal work to see if this coincides with their experience.
- Joined
- May 7, 2013
- Messages
- 849
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
Doesn't look bad and has a nice sound to it. I am interested in seeing what kind of power curve they extract from this system. The Panigale is far too unique for a traditional exhaust to make it Gixxer-ish. If they can get decent numbers with this system and offer it at a competitive price point then it could make for a viable option.
youtube.com/watch?v=dwgZG5A9TJk
youtube.com/watch?v=dwgZG5A9TJk
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2013
- Messages
- 3,079
- Location
- Los Angeles
While all the obvious reasons have been mentioned for the mid range dip from the factory, one has to also understand that these bikes were built for the track and tested by racers who don't frequent the mid range rpms when bangin through the gears on the track. Further custom tuning could "help" smooth it out a bit to make it better than oem but Ducati and any other manufacturer would rather play it safe when it comes to afr's and cam timing for potential warranty reasons. Too many variables to take into consideration when mass producing a bike for buyers around the world (climate, elevation, etc.)
An over the shelf tune like the upmaps are just that. A safe tune. If it means the mid range sucks, oh well. Hell, my Evo was pig reach from the manufacturer as most evos are but as with most performance machines, majority of consumers get a better kick out of modifying them vs. Leaving them stock. I went with the Akra pipes for my bike and will be having it dyno tuned by my dealer who does it in house. I'm also going down a tooth in the front and whatever the outcome is, I will definitely be happy with it as long as the tune still remains on the conservative side. Last thing I wanna run is too lean.
An over the shelf tune like the upmaps are just that. A safe tune. If it means the mid range sucks, oh well. Hell, my Evo was pig reach from the manufacturer as most evos are but as with most performance machines, majority of consumers get a better kick out of modifying them vs. Leaving them stock. I went with the Akra pipes for my bike and will be having it dyno tuned by my dealer who does it in house. I'm also going down a tooth in the front and whatever the outcome is, I will definitely be happy with it as long as the tune still remains on the conservative side. Last thing I wanna run is too lean.
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2012
- Messages
- 2,817
- Location
- Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Because the 1199 is the first Ducati I have owned, I do not miss the "dip" in the Tq from perhaps what guys are used to in the 1198.
I have no dyne graphs for my bike so I do not look at a bit of paper and see a hole in the middle.
When I get in the bike it seems fine to me. Not racing though but have had it on the track. My two cents.
And agree why fit an exhaust that changes one of the fundamental design aims of the bike to lower cg.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2011
- Messages
- 483
- Location
- Cincinnati, OHIO, USA
As I have posted before, akra and a good tune will fill in the hole. I had my bike at Jennings Feb 8-10 and bike feels like a twin again with the great mid range pull and still has more up top. It's great to have those mid range vibrations back.
I guarantee an exhaust like this one in the OP will be loud as .... and more and more tracks are limiting db levels. It will likely make good power but too loud is too loud and you will be very unhappy if you can't participate after spending the time and money to get to a track.
Video Jennings GP Track Day 2.10.14. - YouTube
Chris
I guarantee an exhaust like this one in the OP will be loud as .... and more and more tracks are limiting db levels. It will likely make good power but too loud is too loud and you will be very unhappy if you can't participate after spending the time and money to get to a track.
Video Jennings GP Track Day 2.10.14. - YouTube
Chris
Great video. What tires were you running and what TC level?
If any of you guys ever ride an S1000RR you'll understand what I mean about the midrange dip being noticeable on the 1199. That bike is noted for its perfect power curve, which feels like a rheostat for power when riding it - perfectly linear. I love the power characteristics of the 1199 and how aggressive it feels, but it really would be nice to have that dip filled in if it's possible, that's all I'm saying.
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2012
- Messages
- 1,243
- Location
- Perth, Western Australia
^+1
The Tuneboy tune unquestionably in my mind made the bike much stronger all round, and was far the most powerful state the bike has ever been in but the dip got worse because I was running the AR. Makes sense to me that Tuning with the Termi slips & Tuneboy would perhaps with the hi flow air filter, solve the dip issue.
I have never had the bike set up as above so that's what I'm going to have done as the bike is in for a service currently.
Will dig out an old dyno chart to check...
The Tuneboy tune unquestionably in my mind made the bike much stronger all round, and was far the most powerful state the bike has ever been in but the dip got worse because I was running the AR. Makes sense to me that Tuning with the Termi slips & Tuneboy would perhaps with the hi flow air filter, solve the dip issue.
I have never had the bike set up as above so that's what I'm going to have done as the bike is in for a service currently.
Will dig out an old dyno chart to check...
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2011
- Messages
- 483
- Location
- Cincinnati, OHIO, USA
Running Pirelli slicks (SC1 Rear / SC2 Front).
Ran Dunlops on day one. Swapped to Pirelli's for the rest of this year. I'm still learning.
TC2 and definitely will let you high side at this level as others have found out and I had a nice big slide coming out of 11 at Jennings.
Chris
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2012
- Messages
- 2,817
- Location
- Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Register CTA
Register on Ducati Forum! This sidebar will go away, and you will see fewer ads.
Sign Up
