Racing - Launching with DTC?

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Sep 30, 2014
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Boston
Hi,

I'm am amateur LRRS/CCS racer and I plan on racing my 1199 this year.

Typically when I launch on my motard or my midweight bike, the tire hangs in the air for a bit. So I'm wondering how DTC affects the start of a race.

I remember one time I tried to wheelie from a dead stop / nearly dead stop to see what would happen and the DTC kicked in, and wouldn't return the power for a second or two after the wheel was back on the ground (which BTW feels like forever when you get thrown forward with nothing but your jeans and man-parts between you and the gas tank).

Do people turn off DTC for launching? If so, do they turn it back on when they get a chance or leave it off for the whole race?

I think I had it set to like 3 or 4 at the time. If you put it at 1 or 2, is it less intrusive to the point that it doesn't screw up a launch?
 
I run DTC off or on 1. No issues with the DTC kicking in. ...., in my very first race with the DTC on 1, I did two 12 o'clock wheelies in the start line. Learned a good lesson, take a deep breath and don't dump the clutch.
 
No problems with starts. I have DTC in level 4/5. And have fair good starts in the 2 years I have raced my panigales
 
No problems with starts. I have DTC in level 4/5. And have fair good starts in the 2 years I have raced my panigales

Hmmm..that's curious. I'm not entirely unsurprised to hear that it's ok around level 1, but am a little surprised to hear that you have good launches in 4/5.

As mentioned in my post, I did a dead stop wheelie for ..... and giggles on the road about a year ago. I think DTC was set to 4 and the throttle cut out completely for a second or two, totally threw me forward on the tank and was very unpleasant.

Is it possible that the DTC level 4 in race mode behaves differently than in race mode? (I doubt it,

Or is it that the DTC / wheelie control sensed that I was headed for a 12 o'clock wheelie (or beyond) and threw out the anchor whereas it wouldn't have been as intrusive in a situation closer to a launch (even if the front wheel was at or near a dead stop?)
 
I run DTC off or on 1. No issues with the DTC kicking in. ...., in my very first race with the DTC on 1, I did two 12 o'clock wheelies in the start line. Learned a good lesson, take a deep breath and don't dump the clutch.

Do you have the throttle pinned when you begin to modulate the clutch or at what rpm are you hoping to be at when you begin to slowly let the clutch out?
 
You must be launching pretty hard to have it cut in . Work on your starts .

I haven't launched with the 1199, or any TC equipped bike. Was just wondering if it would come into play, but it sounds like it shouldn't as long as I don't pull a 12 o'clock wheelie of the start.
 
Thanks for your responses, everybody. Sounds like I shouldn't have to worry about it.
 
Update:

DTC did intrude on my launches, but I was gridded pretty far back so it wasn't like it kept me from the holeshot..

It didn't slam me into the tank like it did when I tried to do a standing wheelie, but it definitely cut off until the rear wheel touched the ground....

I came up from 20th to 10th in Unlimited Superbike (probably 6 of those position changes happening before T1), so I don't think my launches are the issue...I don't 12 o'clock it, I just tend to keep the wheel a few inches, but no more than a foot off the ground.

Works out for me on my motard, which doesn't have TC......

Other than either turning off TC and trying to turn it back on mid-race, or altering my launch style so that I loft the wheel less, is there anything else I can do?

I know that the higher the wheel gets, the easier it wants to come up further, but I guess what I'm thinking is that if TC works by measuring front wheel vs. rear wheel, if the front wheel stays even a half inch off the ground (which probably gives you optimal drive), then TC is goign to think there's a problem and cut the power.

...am I wrong? If I just need to feed it more clutch to keep the wheel lower I can, I usually do a practice launch whenever I go out into the hot-pit anyways....
 
you need to reduce the power you're asking the engine with your right hand when you launch. a 450cc thumper motard is one thing, an 1199 is a lot more power. It's probably killing power because you've pushed the DTC to it's absolute limit, and it's decided that the only way to save you from flipping over is to completely kill the power.

DTC for me seems to hold power steady, no matter what I'm asking from the throttle, and that gradually sets the front down. But I never loft it more than a couple INCHES, tops.

wait wait wait. I mean DWC. I have a 1299, so the two functions are separate on my bike. Nevermind, I have no idea how Ducati incorporated any sort of wheelie control in the 1199 DTC; my understanding is that they did NOT.

My +/- switches are set to control DWC (wheelie control) on the fly. I basically go between 2 and 4.
 
The bike will wheelie nuts before the TC kicks in. That's what happened with my first few starts. You'll best control the speed of how fast you release the clutch to ensure it doesn't buck around and get a great start.
 
If the traction control is kicking in you're launching too hard, period. I run the TC on 2, have never felt it intervene and can run a 10 second 1/4 mile pass in my sleep launching from 3000RPM.

Its a 200hp superbike not a 60hp motard, you cant rev it to the moon when you launch it and doing so isn't going to get you the holeshot.
 
you need to reduce the power you're asking the engine with your right hand when you launch. a 450cc thumper motard is one thing, an 1199 is a lot more power. It's probably killing power because you've pushed the DTC to it's absolute limit, and it's decided that the only way to save you from flipping over is to completely kill the power.


The bike will wheelie nuts before the TC kicks in. That's what happened with my first few starts. You'll best control the speed of how fast you release the clutch to ensure it doesn't buck around and get a great start.

If the traction control is kicking in you're launching too hard, period. I run the TC on 2, have never felt it intervene and can run a 10 second 1/4 mile pass in my sleep launching from 3000RPM.

Its a 200hp superbike not a 60hp motard, you cant rev it to the moon when you launch it and doing so isn't going to get you the holeshot.


I appreciate the tips, but I'm not sure how you guys are assuming that I'm rev'ing it to the moon and twelve o'clocking it, I've said that's not the case...but you don't have to take my word for it.

Unfortunately, I don't have a good video of a "typical" launch, but the beginning of this one is fairly typical (DTC set to 2) of my rev's, throttle, and clutch action, but I almost rear-end the guy in front of me, have to cut right, then roll back on - which sets off DTC, not super intrusively if I recall, but you can see the light come on..and I think the front is no more than 6 inches off the ground - probably much less than that.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ws1yvv8wiurg7nm/LRRS R5 2015 Amateur Unlimited GP Launch.mp4?dl=0

You can speculate on how fast it "looks" like the front is coming up, but frankly I think it's hard to judge on the video. I remember feeling it come up, and adjusting my throttle/clutch inputs when the DTC slammed the front to the ground.

I'm open to any tips on anything I'm doing wrong there.

Now, on my typical launch, sometimes DTC kicks in, sometimes it doesn't. I feel like it must have more to do with something like whether the front lifts up immediately or after rolling a foot or two. When it really bothers me is when the front comes down and there's about a half second delay before the power kicks back in again. I've had times I've passed one row of competitors and been gaining on the next one when that little orange light comes on and throws my weight up against the tank - then gaining on them turns into losing on them... :mad:

It looks like most guys that responded have 1299's or very late model R's...remember that I have "old outdated" 2012 technology :D

If you have separate wheelie control, you probably have an electronic gyroscope, and the ducati engineers probably thought about the fact that people might want to launch, or pull sweet wheelies, and that the front wheel wasn't going to turn when its in the air.

OEM traction control is getting better and better, back from the days of the 1198 that would pop because only ignition was getting cut...to today...I think I heard the R1 has yaw control incorporated in its traction control? :eek:

If you guys watch the video and think I'm ham-fisting the thing, say so, but if the answer is that I have to try to intentionally roll the front a foot or two before I let it come up, then its a bummer, but one I can live with - a give and take by having to adapt my riding style for an otherwise completely in-control launch for the safety of having traction control on the rest of the track.


My +/- switches are set to control DWC (wheelie control) on the fly. I basically go between 2 and 4.

I wish I had the +/- switches, I might feel OK just turning the DTC off, but push button / switch mode / close throttle is just a little too much when I'm entering NHMS' T1 at 85-95MPH with a ton of bikes around me. Then 1a and T2 comes up quick (2nd highest danger zone for highside at Loudon), then T3/4 is just plain high-side city (Off-camber, cresting a hill while leaned over and on the throttle for the 2nd longest straight on the track).

I know some aftermarket traction control systems can be adjusted gear-by-gear, I'm probably not going to spring for one of those, but is that something they can adjust in a re-flash of the ECU and/or DTC module? I don't know of any track I'd need 1st gear on outside of the launch especially once I throw a 14t sprocket on the front, so if I can selectively turn off DTC in 1st gear maybe it would be worth looking into....
 
If the DTC is because you lean the bike and because you almost chew the guy in front of you, looks like you got a good start :D
And no, I don't have 1299. Mine is 1199s.
 
If the DTC is because you lean the bike and because you almost chew the guy in front of you, looks like you got a good start :D
And no, I don't have 1299. Mine is 1199s.

Well, I'm not complaining too much about THAT launch in particular ;), although i wasn't really leaned over so I'd argue that I had it under control without DTC.

That video just happened to be the only launch footage I had handy.

...and you were the reason I said *most guys* were on 1299's or late model R's. You were the only one without your bike model in your avatar. Everybody else that responded today is on a bike that I believe has wheelie control.

My point was, I'm not bouncing it off the rev limiter, then dumping the clutch.

By the looks of the video, I'm holding it at ~4 grand, then going up to ~6-6.5 while I feather the clutch. That's higher than I thought, but you *could* launch just about as high in the rev range as you want, as long as you are smooth with the clutch....depending on how much you love changing clutch plates. :D

Again, if anybody has any tips, especially based on anything more than "I'm not having a problem so you must be doing it wrong" (i.e. the video I posted) - I'm all ears.

If, for instance, you think 6 grand is too high, then by all means, let me know, but my fear is that if I aim lower than that, I'll undershoot and risk stalling.

If you make like a road cone on the grid, you're gonna have a bad time. :p
 
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you need to reduce the power you're asking the engine with your right hand when you launch. a 450cc thumper motard is one thing, an 1199 is a lot more power. It's probably killing power because you've pushed the DTC to it's absolute limit, and it's decided that the only way to save you from flipping over is to completely kill the power.

DTC for me seems to hold power steady, no matter what I'm asking from the throttle, and that gradually sets the front down. But I never loft it more than a couple INCHES, tops.

wait wait wait. I mean DWC. I have a 1299, so the two functions are separate on my bike. Nevermind, I have no idea how Ducati incorporated any sort of wheelie control in the 1199 DTC; my understanding is that they did NOT.

My +/- switches are set to control DWC (wheelie control) on the fly. I basically go between 2 and 4.

Pretty sure that DTC is not a wheelie control on the 1199. I think this got thrashed out on here couple years ago.
 

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