Running in mileage for brand new 1299
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Same . It's as bad as watching your parents having sex when you know the right thing to do is close the door and walk the other way .
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You have seen Rogues parents have sex?
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Only seen the video .
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TMI but it never would have been a temptation to watch!
The break in process is more complex and protracted than most people believe.
There are two major phases to the process.
As far as the engine is concerned, the first phase is primarily concerned with the initial bedding the rings. overall It can take longer than one thinks, but the main thing is not to have extended periods at any given engine speed and at constant throttle positions.
For best results, constantly varying throttle position is required at varying engine loads in all the gears if possible.
It can be done on a dyno or on the road. Either way it should be approached sympathetically.
The second phase is more complex and that is when it becomes protracted.
It should be regarded as putting the finishing touches to the first phase and also covers the components within the transmission.
The second phase inevitably takes longer because it is reliant upon multiple heating and cooling cycles for the materials to move and change geometry and also stress relieve.
Both phases are well and truly covered by the "guidelines" set out in the Owners Manual.
I understand racers needing to bed the rings quickly on a dyno.
Other racers break the engine in, in accordance with the manual on the road. Then pull the bike apart to prep it for use on the track.
Either way no one in their right mind expects a long lifespan out of components or for warranty to apply.
Sponsorships and deep pockets are the norm for racers.
For the street/road use longevity is expected along with a full manufacturers warranty as a back up by most end users.
If you don't expect to keep the bike for long, then do what ever you like and can afford
There are two major phases to the process.
As far as the engine is concerned, the first phase is primarily concerned with the initial bedding the rings. overall It can take longer than one thinks, but the main thing is not to have extended periods at any given engine speed and at constant throttle positions.
For best results, constantly varying throttle position is required at varying engine loads in all the gears if possible.
It can be done on a dyno or on the road. Either way it should be approached sympathetically.
The second phase is more complex and that is when it becomes protracted.
It should be regarded as putting the finishing touches to the first phase and also covers the components within the transmission.
The second phase inevitably takes longer because it is reliant upon multiple heating and cooling cycles for the materials to move and change geometry and also stress relieve.
Both phases are well and truly covered by the "guidelines" set out in the Owners Manual.
I understand racers needing to bed the rings quickly on a dyno.
Other racers break the engine in, in accordance with the manual on the road. Then pull the bike apart to prep it for use on the track.
Either way no one in their right mind expects a long lifespan out of components or for warranty to apply.
Sponsorships and deep pockets are the norm for racers.
For the street/road use longevity is expected along with a full manufacturers warranty as a back up by most end users.
If you don't expect to keep the bike for long, then do what ever you like and can afford
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If your comments apply only to Ducatis, then I don't have the background to argue as this is only my 2nd one. But if your comments are for bikes in general, then I have to disagree with the last statement.
I know of WAY too many guys who have used a very hard break-in procedure and have gotten years out of the motor with no issues. I have 4 friends that bought thier bikes new, broke them in hard, and are still racing the same motor (one of those guys is on a bike he bought in 1998). The other guys range from 2004-2008 model years, on the same stock motor, with only minor maintenance (valves, springs, oil/filter, etc).
I personally did a hard break-in on my 2006 R1 and it currently has 14,000+ miles on it (10k on the track) without a single issue.
When I/we do a hard break-in (street or dyno), I/they stage the RPMs at 2k intervals utilizing every gear and while making frequent oil/filter changes...then ultimately arrive at hitting redline at 200mi on the odometer.
FWIW, I even did the same hard break-in on my Triumph Sprint ST that now has well over 35k trouble-free miles on it and counting.
I feel your comments are valid if we are talking about bikes that were built 30 years ago, not today. With current technology, tolerance strictness, CAD, QC standards etc there is no reason why a motor that is broken in "hard" cant/won't last as long as a motor broken in by the manual.
I know of WAY too many guys who have used a very hard break-in procedure and have gotten years out of the motor with no issues. I have 4 friends that bought thier bikes new, broke them in hard, and are still racing the same motor (one of those guys is on a bike he bought in 1998). The other guys range from 2004-2008 model years, on the same stock motor, with only minor maintenance (valves, springs, oil/filter, etc).
I personally did a hard break-in on my 2006 R1 and it currently has 14,000+ miles on it (10k on the track) without a single issue.
When I/we do a hard break-in (street or dyno), I/they stage the RPMs at 2k intervals utilizing every gear and while making frequent oil/filter changes...then ultimately arrive at hitting redline at 200mi on the odometer.
FWIW, I even did the same hard break-in on my Triumph Sprint ST that now has well over 35k trouble-free miles on it and counting.
I feel your comments are valid if we are talking about bikes that were built 30 years ago, not today. With current technology, tolerance strictness, CAD, QC standards etc there is no reason why a motor that is broken in "hard" cant/won't last as long as a motor broken in by the manual.
Actually, the hard break in will allow the engine to last longer.
The trick is to seat the rings before the bore cross hatching is too worn. Light, easy breakins will seat the rings too late, with too much bore wear. There is an exact engineering art to it. The engine needs spun a certain amount, then load tested HARD to seat the rings.
This can't be done on the street with a 195HP bike. That's why it's done on the dyno at the factory. Every single engine I put into a car or bike, gets run for 1/2 hour, oil change, then straight to the dyno for breakin.
Generally car engines have such soft parts that it doesn't matter in the least. But bikes like this, and other performance engines, are much different.
The trick is to seat the rings before the bore cross hatching is too worn. Light, easy breakins will seat the rings too late, with too much bore wear. There is an exact engineering art to it. The engine needs spun a certain amount, then load tested HARD to seat the rings.
This can't be done on the street with a 195HP bike. That's why it's done on the dyno at the factory. Every single engine I put into a car or bike, gets run for 1/2 hour, oil change, then straight to the dyno for breakin.
Generally car engines have such soft parts that it doesn't matter in the least. But bikes like this, and other performance engines, are much different.
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New Engine Break-in Procedure
Backs up most of what has been said, but loading too much heat into the motor too soon isn't good, either. A decent street break in in possible - third/fourth gear hard throttle runs load the rings just fine
Key point:
The higher the B.M.E.P, the harder the piston ring is pushed against the wall. The surface temperature at the piston ring face and cylinder wall interface will be greater with high B.M.E.P. than with low B.M.E.P. This is because we are pushing the ring harder against the rough cylinder wall surface causing high amounts of friction and thus heat. The primary deterrent of break in is this heat. Allowing to much heat to build up at the ring to cylinder wall interface will cause the lubricating oil that is present to break down and glaze the cylinder wall surface. This glaze will prevent any further seating of the piston rings. If glazing is allowed to happen break in will never occur. Also, if too little pressure (throttle) is used during the break-in period glazing will also occur.
Backs up most of what has been said, but loading too much heat into the motor too soon isn't good, either. A decent street break in in possible - third/fourth gear hard throttle runs load the rings just fine
Key point:
The higher the B.M.E.P, the harder the piston ring is pushed against the wall. The surface temperature at the piston ring face and cylinder wall interface will be greater with high B.M.E.P. than with low B.M.E.P. This is because we are pushing the ring harder against the rough cylinder wall surface causing high amounts of friction and thus heat. The primary deterrent of break in is this heat. Allowing to much heat to build up at the ring to cylinder wall interface will cause the lubricating oil that is present to break down and glaze the cylinder wall surface. This glaze will prevent any further seating of the piston rings. If glazing is allowed to happen break in will never occur. Also, if too little pressure (throttle) is used during the break-in period glazing will also occur.
I totally agree.
If I may add?
The ring pack area is literally a chemical reactor for any oil that's lingering in that region. It is actually exposed to large amounts of heat and pressure.
An in-depth study I have seen, strongly indicates the engine oil stays in the ring pack area for period that's measured in the 10's of seconds.
The oil is literally being destroyed in every imaginable way, and with the higher piston speeds the effects upon the oil are multiplied.
The idea is to be on and off the throttle in order to vary and alternate the cylinder pressure between a positive and negative condition as well as varying the piston speed.
The positive pressure condition(throttle on) forces the rings to conform to the bore and thereby facilitates the ring break-in process.
There's absolutely no other way to do it.
The negative cylinder pressure(throttle off) releases the outward pressure of the rings contacting the bore which in turn allows some fresh engine oil to be drawn up into the ring pack.
This serves three main purposes.
1, The fresh charge of oil helps cool the components and minimises a potential overheat condition of the ring components.
2, It allows the old degraded oil to be drawn up into the cylinder combustion chamber area to be burnt off and discarded, leaving the fresh incoming oil charge to do it's job as intended.
3, The oil that's allowed to flush over the cylinder wall is scraped back down into the bulk oil and flushes microscopic debris from the break-in process away.
The debris is ring, cylinder wall material and piston material.
Too high cylinder pressure may tend to gall the cross hatching on the cylinder wall due to the scale of the undulations of the cross hatching.
Too many revs too early in the life of the engine during the break-in process can damage the bore in ways that can only be observed by large magnification.
It is regarded as permanent unless the bore is refinished back to factory specs.
Too little cylinder pressure early on in the process can tend bend the very tops of the cross hatching over, instead of progressively wearing it off to make the peaks of the crosshatching flat on the top. When the crosshatching is bent over as opposed to worn down flat, it is what is referred to as "glazed". It is also regarded as permanent.
A chronically glazed condition can only be rectified by refinishing the bore.
Used Oil Analysis has revealed, it can take up to about 8,000-12,000 kms for the break in process to complete for different engine designs.
Used Oil Analysis indicates our modern DUCATI's take very little time to break in.
It applies to motorcycles as well as anything else, especially with a shared sump design due to the transmission components needing to be "run in" as well.
Naturally the results will vary with different brands of machine and designs.
If one respects and values their machine as well as longevity, then it is prudent to follow the manufacturers recommendations if at all possible.
After all the manufacturer designed and spec'd the materials used in the assembly as well as building it to a high standard.
All it takes is a little self control.
Used Oil Analysis indicates that when the break-in is performed in accordance with the recommendation in the Owners Manual, 1000 kms is quite adequate to achieve the desired results in our DUCATI's without the added expense of putting the bike on a dyno.
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Now that proper break in is covered what type of oil and how often should I change it
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Modern engine tolerances are so good that many older theories about break-in are simply out of date, but "redline out of the dealership" is likely not optimum for best performance and longevity, for reasons discussed.
"Moderation in all things" - people tend to gravitate to extremes
"Moderation in all things" - people tend to gravitate to extremes
True enough.
Especially if they think it will give them some imaginary edge over the bike parked beside them at Starbucks
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