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You can't tell what happened from that clip. The only thing you can see clearly is nothing happened until MM leaned in. Maybe Rossi pushed his leg out, MM head hit Rossi, or somehow the brake lever was engaged. Who knows?
Rossi better get the best start in his life at Valencia and get in the top 10 EARLY. He better hope Jorge is off his game and the factory aliens along with the Ducati boys finish ahead of Jorge or its over.
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from both those vids, i dont think you can establish w/out doubt that it was foul play; esp in light of MM's head hitting Rossi's knee-puck prior to moment of wipe-out...
one could argue that upon helmet hitting puck, the foot coming up & out was reflexive...
def not incontrovertible foul....
edit: in 3rd aerial shot it looks like Rossi pushed his knee out to MM's helmet... yeah, the man earned his 3rd place "win" after all w/ a foul albeit..
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^^^^ those pictures were posted already on page 15 I think.
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thatz what i thought too, but then i reviewed the aerial and it shows R clearly extend his knee into MM....
i am not sure i agree w/ the penalty tho, given what transpired before....
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dont you think if you feel pressure on your leg, you push against it as to brace yourself? ..granted it seem much more but I can see that happening.
If was in a race track and saw somone running into me on my bike I would do the same.
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dont you think if you feel pressure on your leg, you push against it as to brace yourself? ..granted it seem much more but I can see that happening.
If was in a race track and saw somone running into me on my bike I would do the same.
there was no initial pressure... the pressure came as direct result of R first extending his leg toward MM's helmet and then MM's head contacting it -- the rest of the leg movement was direct cause of wipe-out....
as for someone running into someone else, well, they were both ultra-aggressively dicing it up and thatz why i wrote what transpired directly beforehand should have had bearing on ruling, hence to me starting last place is quite harsh...
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My opinion is that Rossi was preventing Marc from turning in... basically leaving it up to Marc to decide if he was going to continue to slow down with Rossi to the edge of the track or make contact. Marc decided to take his chances with contact and turned into Rossi. Rossi may have pushed off with his leg when he felt Marc hit it, but I didn't see Rossi stick his leg out prior to Marc making contact.
Rossi basically pulled an Aryton Senna move by putting his opponent in a position where he has to decide to yield or crash.
Rossi basically pulled an Aryton Senna move by putting his opponent in a position where he has to decide to yield or crash.
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thats what I was thinking. But Valencia is one of the hardest place to make a pass...I really hope other Riders let VR pass on the first lap.
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Johan Zarco wrote : "The fact is: Marquez was deliberately holding Rossi up. I said this when I saw the Philip Island race live (long before Rossi made the accusation), and people thought I was just making excuses for Rossi. But it was obvious. At the time I said Marquez was holding Rossi up so that Iannone could catch up and slow Rossi down, and indeed that is what happened. I didn't go as far at to think Marquez was doing it to help Lorenzo, but when Iannone confirmed that Marquez was being deliberately slow, Rossi's accusation made absolute sense when he made it.
What's more: is that Jorge Lorenzo, and Andrea Iannone, as well agreed that Marquez helped Lorenzo at the pre-race Sepang press conference. Iannone said it was obvious that Marquez was playing with them. Also, the look on Lorenzo's face after the Philip Island race, said it all. His expression told the story that he knew he got very lucky. He knew Rossi was faster than him, but that Marquez held him up and secured Lorenzo a position in front of
Rossi.When Rossi talked to journalists after the pre-race conference, he had with him, lap time-sheet data from Philip Island to prove that Marquez was being intentionally slower. At Philip Island Marquez set a race LAP RECORD in the last lap, and with worn tires. That's proof enough that he had the pace all along to be miles ahead of Lorenzo during the race. Now in Sepang, Marquez was the fastest in warm up, and yet he let Lorenzo through to battle with Rossi. The ease with which Marquez was able to overtake Rossi at Sepand tells you the guy was much faster than Rossi was, but stayed behind to slow Rossi down instead of fighting with Pedrosa for victory.
What's more: is that Jorge Lorenzo, and Andrea Iannone, as well agreed that Marquez helped Lorenzo at the pre-race Sepang press conference. Iannone said it was obvious that Marquez was playing with them. Also, the look on Lorenzo's face after the Philip Island race, said it all. His expression told the story that he knew he got very lucky. He knew Rossi was faster than him, but that Marquez held him up and secured Lorenzo a position in front of
Rossi.When Rossi talked to journalists after the pre-race conference, he had with him, lap time-sheet data from Philip Island to prove that Marquez was being intentionally slower. At Philip Island Marquez set a race LAP RECORD in the last lap, and with worn tires. That's proof enough that he had the pace all along to be miles ahead of Lorenzo during the race. Now in Sepang, Marquez was the fastest in warm up, and yet he let Lorenzo through to battle with Rossi. The ease with which Marquez was able to overtake Rossi at Sepand tells you the guy was much faster than Rossi was, but stayed behind to slow Rossi down instead of fighting with Pedrosa for victory.
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zarco? oh the dude who just won what title ?
LOL
do you even race bro?
wow. lots of internet cowboys herding the racing cattle nowadays. just a few of them actually ever RACED (sanctioned event) ... ever got in a situation like that? yeah, keep going.
my personal bottom line is:
MM let JLo slip through by "going wide" - OK, well...
JLo passed VR under yellow - OK.
MM tried to get VR off track several times - OK
in the end VR ran wide and slowed down ("for safety" he looked and checked where MM was) - IMHO OK but FIM has a different opinion
MM ran into VR to make him crash but he fell - OK
VR slipped off the peg and people thought it was VR who initiated the crash. - OK
VR finished the race, no pit penalty, no black flag - OK
VR got three points for the same provocation that MM ran in the laps before - NOT OK
result: back of grid next race - NOT OK (see above)
a kamikaze fighter on a honda still out there - NOT OK
LOL
do you even race bro?
wow. lots of internet cowboys herding the racing cattle nowadays. just a few of them actually ever RACED (sanctioned event) ... ever got in a situation like that? yeah, keep going.
my personal bottom line is:
MM let JLo slip through by "going wide" - OK, well...
JLo passed VR under yellow - OK.
MM tried to get VR off track several times - OK
in the end VR ran wide and slowed down ("for safety" he looked and checked where MM was) - IMHO OK but FIM has a different opinion
MM ran into VR to make him crash but he fell - OK
VR slipped off the peg and people thought it was VR who initiated the crash. - OK
VR finished the race, no pit penalty, no black flag - OK
VR got three points for the same provocation that MM ran in the laps before - NOT OK
result: back of grid next race - NOT OK (see above)
a kamikaze fighter on a honda still out there - NOT OK
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Aryton Senna, ahh yes, if Rossi take a page of Aryton books he can secure the championship in turn 1 at Valencia.
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i agree with all of this, except i stared more at studied the aerial vid and i am convinced R did push out, BUT i dont think given all that was happening it was NOT a proper move to some extent. i think there really should have been no penalty or if they really wanted to give one, which again i dont agree with, to penalize him into equivalent of 4th place finish points-wise.
anyhow, i also agree re: honda kamikaze...
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The wrong rider was penalized, we are all watching nationalism being carried out, along with a petty score card tally. Rossi needed to take him wide onto the dirt right off the bat
without looking at him. As a racer watching what the 93 is doing is painfully obvious, his moves on Rossi are made with no regard to corner exit speed , momentum or drive off let alone corner sequence, just strait out disruption and blocking. DORNA (spain) is not going to do anything to their national hero mm, so they need to penalize Rossi, they were looking at the prospect of NO Spanish champions this year in GP or WSBK.
If Rossi loses the Championship as a direct result of this penalty I think the repercussions through the sport will be much more than DORNA was figuring on. Like it or not Valentino is the face of Moto GP, there is no one else waiting in the wings that can fill his shoes, he has the right ratio of ingredients talent, ability, desire, personality, ruthlessness, and SHOWMANSHIP to make him the worldwide celebrity he is. He is to Moto GP what Dale Earnhardt was to NASCAR, and that program went strait down the ....... when he died.
Marquez might have had a shot at filling his shoes, but he has just become the most hated rider in the history of Moto GP, good thing the last race is in Spain, the other 2 fast Spanish rides have the personalities of robots, so what a season, to bad a spoiled little brat had to turn it nasty because he couldn't win this year to go for his 3 in a row.
P.S.
to the resident rossi hater/last word freak this ought to worth two pages of your alcohol fueled spew, fire away.
without looking at him. As a racer watching what the 93 is doing is painfully obvious, his moves on Rossi are made with no regard to corner exit speed , momentum or drive off let alone corner sequence, just strait out disruption and blocking. DORNA (spain) is not going to do anything to their national hero mm, so they need to penalize Rossi, they were looking at the prospect of NO Spanish champions this year in GP or WSBK.
If Rossi loses the Championship as a direct result of this penalty I think the repercussions through the sport will be much more than DORNA was figuring on. Like it or not Valentino is the face of Moto GP, there is no one else waiting in the wings that can fill his shoes, he has the right ratio of ingredients talent, ability, desire, personality, ruthlessness, and SHOWMANSHIP to make him the worldwide celebrity he is. He is to Moto GP what Dale Earnhardt was to NASCAR, and that program went strait down the ....... when he died.
Marquez might have had a shot at filling his shoes, but he has just become the most hated rider in the history of Moto GP, good thing the last race is in Spain, the other 2 fast Spanish rides have the personalities of robots, so what a season, to bad a spoiled little brat had to turn it nasty because he couldn't win this year to go for his 3 in a row.
P.S.
to the resident rossi hater/last word freak this ought to worth two pages of your alcohol fueled spew, fire away.
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The bottom line is that Marquez was purposely ....... with Rossi; end of story.
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