The Need for a Smaller Panigale?

On my ride in to work today I was just putting around in traffic on a brisk ~32 degree morning and I was thinking about my move from the 848 to the Panigale.

Not once have I regretted it, in fact, for me it was a move that I wish I would have done sooner but I guess you have to experience other things before the choice you love to appreciate it.

I was thinking back to when I was looking to trade up and I browsed forums like this and couldn't help but think about the "smaller" version of the Panigale, the 799. And just for discussions sake what if that bike isn't really necessary for the consumer market? What if the Panigale is capable of filling that niche?

Think of the Panigale platform being modular where the entry of the smaller version of the Panigale is just the one we have but with lower horsepower mapping (similar to stock WET mode)? Given how light the bike is, and how it handles couldn't you argue that the platform could adapt with the desire of the rider?

By no means am I suggesting that this is something that beginners should consider (most sport bikes today at 600cc and up classes are horrible beginner bikes so get it out of your head) but for the seasoned rider that doesn't want a literbike necessarily, this type of bike could "tailored" to fit their demands.

Bumps in power and packages could come in the form of Stage/Spec upgrades.

Just something I was thinking about while commuting to work today in WET mode. This is not a thing Ducati would ever do of course, but it's an interesting consideration. Your thoughts?

Germcati said:

On my ride in to work today I was just putting around in traffic on a brisk ~32 degree morning and I was thinking about my move from the 848 to the Panigale.

Not once have I regretted it, in fact, for me it was a move that I wish I would have done sooner but I guess you have to experience other things before the choice you love to appreciate it.

I was thinking back to when I was looking to trade up and I browsed forums like this and couldn't help but think about the "smaller" version of the Panigale, the 799. And just for discussions sake what if that bike isn't really necessary for the consumer market? What if the Panigale is capable of filling that niche?

Think of the Panigale platform being modular where the entry of the smaller version of the Panigale is just the one we have but with lower horsepower mapping (similar to stock WET mode)? Given how light the bike is, and how it handles couldn't you argue that the platform could adapt with the desire of the rider?

By no means am I suggesting that this is something that beginners should consider (most sport bikes today at 600cc and up classes are horrible beginner bikes so get it out of your head) but for the seasoned rider that doesn't want a literbike necessarily, this type of bike could "tailored" to fit their demands.

Bumps in power and packages could come in the form of Stage/Spec upgrades.

Just something I was thinking about while commuting to work today in WET mode. This is not a thing Ducati would ever do of course, but it's an interesting consideration. Your thoughts?

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There needs to be a middle weight for that class of racing. It's also suitable for people who just don't want a literbike, or the increase in insurance. Considering the ride height as well, it may appeal more to women and smaller riders if it were slightly shorter? A greater selection of tires would be nice too. (I doubt a middle weight would be running a 200 profile.)

But just an aside, my friend got an 848 for his first bike and he's doing just fine. Displacement is not the thing to be worried about...

You could certainly load some crippleware on there and have the same hardware with reduced performance, etc. through the software. This is done in other industries all the time to manufacture the same part/model and then have different "levels" at different price points. The problem with doing the Panigale that way would likely be entry price. I don't think a dumbed down Panigale could compete against middleweights on price.

ever try the MV agusta f3- 675 cc i believe.

as for the panigale, it really is a compact small light weight machine- i realized this when it is parked next to other motorcycles, even the BMW s 1000rr- the panigale really looks tiny-

@Trans: I agree, for racing the displacement restriction would definitely be a detractor for racing restrictions. In regards to your friend I completely understand where he's coming from my first bike was an R6 and ultimately it comes down to being able to control that right hand. I just didn't want someone that loves the way the bike looks and has never ridden a motorcycle to justify in their head that this is a choice for them because of X,Y,Z. (Insert MSF plug here!!)

@CF: Yeah the price point would definitely be an issue but the difference between the 848 and the panigale spectrum isn't too far fetched of a swing with the Evo and Corse at $13,995 and $14,995 respectively.

A de-tuned/de-contented version of the 1199? As the OP posted, not something Ducati's ever going to do - would dilute the model's brand value. The positioning strategy for the 848 has always been about accessibility, both in terms of price and performance level; the rational/poor rider's entry-level Ducati Superbike. It was never intended as a WSS competitor, so it sidesteps the need to be cutting edge in terms of power and features. With the 848, you get all the poke you rationally need for the road, plus the looks and cachet of a Ducati Superbike (at least to non-Ducatisti). Those who want all the bells and whistles can pony up for the real thing, which is sufficiently differentiated to justify the bump in price.

So the role/nature of the smaller bike depends on whether they change that strategy for the 848 replacement. If they keep it, then it should end up as an 849 or 899, using the same engine external dimensions and F/R subframe pieces, with downmarket suspension and brakes, and less electronics. Would probably market in the mid $15K price range for a base model, meaning less margin for Ducati per unit, but it would help amortize their fixed costs thus making the 1199 a little more profitable. Would be a good, but lesser bike in the same way as an 848 has been to the 1098/1198. Just a more accessible version of the true object of desire; the pep squad version of the varsity cheerleader, if you know what I mean... If they got really aggressive and priced it close to the current 848, that would signal intent to shift some real volume. No doubt they'd move a bunch of 'em like that.

If they change course and go for a real WSS contender, then that would be a different story as it would have to be 749cc (whatever they ended up calling it), and it would have to be much sharper in spec; lighter and tighter by a stretch, with top-spec parts all around. Honestly don't see that happening in a soft SS-class market, but a 20+lb lighter 749 with a 150+hp motor spinning to 13,500 or so would be a very tasty item. Would almost certainly entail new external engine dimensions and unique subrames/swingarm, so big $ to build. In other words, don't hold your breath.

I would personally love a 799 Panigale. I dont want a detuned 1199 however, just to make it equivalent to a 799.

To me, I dont need a 1199cc bike. Yea it nice, its fast as f***, etc etc - but I had just as much fun on my old GSXR 750. If I could get a smaller sized Panigale, ~799 displacement, and the wonderful ride of our Panigale - I would be in hog heaven!

just put the 1199 in 120hp mode as the bike feels like a 600, the 120 mode will give about the same displacement.

Love the looks of the F3 MV but man, exhaust note is pitiful. And loads of mapping/fueling probs with it to boot.

EvoL said:

I would personally love a 799 Panigale. I dont want a detuned 1199 however, just to make it equivalent to a 799.

To me, I dont need a 1199cc bike. Yea it nice, its fast as f***, etc etc - but I had just as much fun on my old GSXR 750. If I could get a smaller sized Panigale, ~799 displacement, and the wonderful ride of our Panigale - I would be in hog heaven!

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zvez said:

just put the 1199 in 120hp mode as the bike feels like a 600, the 120 mode will give about the same displacement.

Love the looks of the F3 MV but man, exhaust note is pitiful. And loads of mapping/fueling probs with it to boot.

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That's what I was thinking about this morning in the commute, "Man at 120 mode it feels like a 600 already, why would they even bother."

But just an aside, my friend got an 848 for his first bike and he's doing just fine. Displacement is not the thing to be worried about...[/QUOTE]

i agree with this 100% The size of the engine doesnt matter what matters is the persons right wrist. as you can see in my signature my first bike was a zx10r. Brand new in 07. The guys that got bikes with me got zx6r. all bikes were our first. I heard everything you can imagine mostly with your crazy for doing that. If i dont twist my wrist the bike doesnt go bottom line.

After 2 months my 600 buddies wanted 1000s. waste of money in my opinion if your going to upgrade in a year. I went to a riding safty school for 3 days before i got my bike (not a race school just a safety school) The 1000 was perfect I grew into it. Sold it 3 years later now i have the 1199.

moral of story buy what you want and ride safe. you can get hurt on a 600 too

PS if i never got the zx10r i still would have bought the 1199 as my first bike.