Throttle modulation

Guys I'm hoping someone can shed some light on the problems I'm having with my throttle.

The way I would describe the throttle is 'hair trigger' or 'on or off'. Even when I have zero weight on the bars and I'm almost using two fingers to twist the throttle it's still there. I compare with my HP4 which I have tracked more recently and has none of these problems.

This is particularly an issue on entry and and mid-corner, especially when in a group or catching a slower rider when sometime you have to adjust speed. Once I'm rolling on the gas mid corner or post apex its fine although often the point when I open the throttle it 'snaps' open and unsettles the bike. I'm also concerned that if 'snaps' shut it could cause an accident, loading up the front at the wrong time.

I have all the latest maps etc and I've tried both Termis and the AR exhaust but no difference. The only other thing I have yet to try is to revert to a 39T sprocket with 525 chain instead of the 41t and 520.

I'm wondering whether anyone has experienced this also and perhaps found a fix I'm unaware of. Your input is appreciated.

Kope is probably the guy to reach out to. I know he recently altered the stock throttle opening and shortened it so that he doesn't have to twist throttle as much to be wide open. This may also have an effect on the problem you're experiencing. Just a thought since there's almost nothing he hasn't tinkered with/changed on his bike.

Just lower your wrist position.
A small amount can make the world of difference.

The other problem you've got to contend with is the fact that your riding other machines.
The 1199 requires some adjustment time and perfection of technique.
The more I ride thee 1199 the better I get with it, but if I ride other bikes in between then I've got to re-learn the 1199.

double0 said:

Just a thought since there's almost nothing he hasn't tinkered with/changed on his bike.

Click to expand...

Including tightening his nuts

Which power delivery mode are you using? The difference between 195 hi and low is the apparent throttle response as far as I can tell. If you're using hi, switch to low and see if that feels better or worse to you.

Cloner said:

Which power delivery mode are you using? The difference between 195 hi and low is the apparent throttle response as far as I can tell. If you're using hi, switch to low and see if that feels better or worse to you.

Click to expand...

Ye I meant to do that yesterday and forgot

I seem to remember I tried that previously though and it didn't solve the issue.

Brad said:

Just lower your wrist position.
A small amount can make the world of difference.

The other problem you've got to contend with is the fact that your riding other machines.
The 1199 requires some adjustment time and perfection of technique.
The more I ride thee 1199 the better I get with it, but if I ride other bikes in between then I've got to re-learn the 1199.

Click to expand...

I agree that adaptation is important but good technique usually overcomes issues like that. For example I remember the bike used to get unsettled in quick left-right-left turns but this time I had no problems like this because my movement on the bike is lower and smoother.

I was very light and low on the throttle yesterday which is why its frustrating not to be able to solve it. I'm going to go and ride a new one and see if its the same, ableist it will be a short run on the road.

So to close this one off for now....

So I've been chatting to a few local owners who go to the same track as me. One chap who is a good 5 seconds a lap faster than me on the Pani had this to say:

"This is my take on the panigale around the track ( I have only managed 65's around barbs on mine) it's certainly the bike mate and just how it is, there isn't an issue with your bike just have to seriously adjust how you ride, that what I found anyway, everything has to be done a lot earlier to eliminate that on off throttle by that I mean get your braking and slowing down early before the corner then get on it and starting winding the throttle progressively, therefore eliminating the on off throttle ant the entry or mid corner, so basically you want to be doing the whole braking slowing down etc etc way earlier then on the inline 4's it's weird at first but then becomes very easy and really starts to get quick fast !

You might get blown by on the run in to the corner but will have heaps more mid corner and exit speed due to you starting your process earlier and therefore being harder on the throttle earlier, I tried to ride mine like a inline 4 at first and found it really jerky and not smooth at all due to the learchy on of throttle mid corner and run the risk of losing the front, you need to be on the gas and progressing through the throttle by the time you enter the corner hope this all makes sense ? "

This all makes perfect sense to me now. For example at Turn 6, normally on the BMW I'd be trail braking with a neutral throttle, trying to carry as much speed as possible to then get on the throttle on the apex. With the same corner on the 1199 based on the feedback above I'd be braking earlier but back on the throttle before the apex and keep winding it on right through the corner.

Even in a right to left switch of direction I'd try and stay on the gas, which I noticed on Sunday worked better without realising what I was doing.

I think I'm starting to figure it out!!!

great to read about your progress!!!

I took my bike to the New Ducati in Westlake, CA. for my 7.5k Mi service and they uploaded a new map (Not sure what it is but the DDS 2.0 said there was an update) and they reset the TPS. The bike runs really smooth and feels like it has more power. The throttle response is a lot better after they resets the TPS. Those guys are pretty good so far, they actually took really good care of my bike. They have a dyno (250i) with the ability to remap your ECU. I went back to get new tires from them and got the same good treatment.

I recommend you reset your TPS it made a huge difference.

WAfatboy said:

Even in a right to left switch of direction I'd try and stay on the gas, which I noticed on Sunday worked better without realising what I was doing.

I think I'm starting to figure it out!!!

Click to expand...

Excellent

That's basically what I was referring to regarding technique.
But I was/am incapable of describing the process in a manner that makes sense. I've personally managed to adapt instinctively.

The technique described is what I've found to work best with the 1199 in riding on the street as well.
Things have to be more deliberate and planned with how you approach everything you do whilst riding the 1199.
The 1199 is in other ways, a bit of a juggling act. And it's easy to drop the balls.
I think it's got something to do with how they've configured the ride by wire system as well. It's almost like ....... with 3 or 4 condoms on.
It needs to be improved to make it feel like real world throttle control with throttle cables.
IMO, the RBW algorithms are the biggest and most profound fault with the 1199.

I thoroughly enjoy the challenge of mastering the 1199 though, as it keeps me totally engaged
Every time I ride something else for a while, it sets me back on the 1199.

In the past I have said here on this forum that the 1199 is very difficult to ride at it's limits.
I think it's why racing success will be hard to achieve on these bikes because of this. It will require a rider who is totally committed to the bike to get the absolute best out of it.

In summary.
I think the 1199 is easy to ride.
But very difficult to "ride well"

IMO, if you continue to ride the BMW it will hamper your development in terms of riding the 1199.
You may well have to make a decision at some point

Good luck WAF

Brad said:

Excellent

That's basically what I was referring to regarding technique.
But I was/am incapable of describing the process in a manner that makes sense. I've personally managed to adapt instinctively.

The technique described is what I've found to work best with the 1199 in riding on the street as well.
Things have to be more deliberate and planned with how you approach everything you do whilst riding the 1199.
The 1199 is in other ways, a bit of a juggling act. And it's easy to drop the balls.
I think it's got something to do with how they've configured the ride by wire system as well. It's almost like ....... with 3 or 4 condoms on.
It needs to be improved to make it feel like real world throttle control with throttle cables.
IMO, the RBW algorithms are the biggest and most profound fault with the 1199.

I thoroughly enjoy the challenge of mastering the 1199 though, as it keeps me totally engaged
Every time I ride something else for a while, it sets me back on the 1199.

In the past I have said here on this forum that the 1199 is very difficult to ride at it's limits.
I think it's why racing success will be hard to achieve on these bikes because of this. It will require a rider who is totally committed to the bike to get the absolute best out of it.

In summary.
I think the 1199 is easy to ride.
But very difficult to "ride well"

IMO, if you continue to ride the BMW it will hamper your development in terms of riding the 1199.
You may well have to make a decision at some point

Good luck WAF

Click to expand...

Thanks. To be honest I will probably put the Pani back to road trim ultimately but I'm going to have a go at tracking it a few times more before I do, just to see if I can get better because I hate being beat by my own incompetence. The fact that I can start to figure things out is a step forward even though putting it into practice is another thing entirely. I watched a few Canepa videos and there is a difference between how he rides the bike in 2012 when he was new to it, to how he rides in 2013, you can hear a more deliberate approach.

Id still get another opinion.

have someone else ride your bike, or you ride a buddies

Yep later this month this guy is going to put in a few laps to check if he feels that it works differently.

WAfatboy said:

Thanks. To be honest I will probably put the Pani back to road trim ultimately but I'm going to have a go at tracking it a few times more before I do, just to see if I can get better because I hate being beat by my own incompetence. The fact that I can start to figure things out is a step forward even though putting it into practice is another thing entirely. I watched a few Canepa videos and there is a difference between how he rides the bike in 2012 when he was new to it, to how he rides in 2013, you can hear a more deliberate approach.

Click to expand...

Yes I honestly think the 1199 requires 110% commitment to get the best out of it.
It's an absolute challenge that I'll never tire of

outhouse said:

Id still get another opinion.

have someone else ride your bike, or you ride a buddies

Click to expand...

It certainly wouldn't hurt.
That way you can put it down to operator error
Or other

I feel the same sensation on my 'R. I'm new to Ducati and new to RbW, so I'm trying to acclimate myself to the bike and the sensation. I do know that when I went for a ride the other day in wet conditions, I switched the riding mode to "Wet" and the throttle seemed much more similar to what I'm used to feeling with a cable throttled bike. That being said, I couldn't wait to switch to "Race" later in the day so the bitch could get all pissy with me again lol!
I've also been told that the Panigale rewards those who ride very smooth, particularly on the track. This really seems to make more and more sense as I get more time on the bike and realize just how much response the bike provides with any given input. There really is nothing better than figuring out what turns a new woman on!
Speaking of throttle, is there a way to take out the slack at full closed position? If my 'R were a cable bike, I would have tightened up the slack in the cable by now. Anyone know a solution to this?

Pilot said:

Speaking of throttle, is there a way to take out the slack at full closed position? If my 'R were a cable bike, I would have tightened up the slack in the cable by now. Anyone know a solution to this?

Click to expand...

I'd like to know as well...

WAfatboy said:

I'd like to know as well...

Click to expand...

Well I have found that in general, the slack we feel in the throttle of the 1199 is largely consistent with the factory tolerance of the cable operated throttles on previous models.

I think that DUCATI deems the factory tolerance to be appropriate, and have used that tolerance as a default. By design it can't be changed.
After all, it could be argued that we really don't spend that much time transitioning from the fully closed stop position to throttling on in real world riding even if we're riding casually.

I think the worst of it with the 1199, is actually the dampening of throttle actuation at the throttle bodies themselves, and its disconnected relationship with the twist grip. That's why I relate it to ....... with multiple condoms on.
It's in the algorithms used to control the throttle bodies.

The Wet mode setting seems to be ok in practice over the widest range of operating conditions.
Race mode is fine for a totally smooth road/track.
IMO, Sport mode is not much good for anything other than more relaxed smooth road riding because it's neither fish nor fowl.
It's absolutely no good for rough roads because it floats around too much, that's where I switch to Wet mode.

Basically for me I'm mostly either in Wet mode or Race mode, and adapt the best I can accordingly.

More importantly.
I'd like to know if the throttle actuation on the SL is any different/improved, and by how much?

I finally worked out it EBC that was causing the problem. Switched it off completely (instead of playing 1-3) an the throttle feels much more direct and doesn't surge at inappropriate times.