Throttle modulation

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WAfatboy said:
I finally worked out it EBC that was causing the problem. Switched it off completely (instead of playing 1-3) an the throttle feels much more direct and doesn't surge at inappropriate times.
Click to expand...
Wait doesn't EBC set to "off" give the maximum engine braking with increased numbers gradually letting off on Engine Braking :confused:
 
Prince Albert said:
Wait doesn't EBC set to "off" give the maximum engine braking with increased numbers gradually letting off on Engine Braking :confused:
Click to expand...

Yes. Its a system that artificially changes the engine RPM, in the words of Ducati...

"?...The engine braking control system (EBC) works in combination with the slipper clutch to prevent and manage any blockage of the rear wheel when aggressively shifting down. If the system detects any slipping of the wheel, it sends a signal to the control device of the engine, which then slightly increases the rpms until the rear wheel resumes a speed conforming to that of the vehicle "

This is why I thought I turn it off and see whether it made any difference...I figured if there's a system that can trigger increases in rpm it might be related

I re-read a few reviews of the system and this journo described the effect

"...what I don't like about it is that when you go from a trailing front brake into corners, then letting off the brake completely, the EBC, still working, gives the bike a tiny shove but enough to make you feel like you're understeering"

I get this feeling when I back off the throttle in normal riding, when the slipper clutch and rear wheel are not being troubled, when I slight back off the throttle (even neutral throttle)

I also noticed that when I pull in the clutch rolling to stop at lights the engine revs blip slightly, and this seems to be connected to the clutch somehow (won't do it at rest in neutral or gear in the garage, I just tried to replicate it).

So given that EBC is an electronic system connected to the throttle I figure turning it off would at least rule it out of the equation, and when I did I immediately felt a difference.

Turning off EBC made the throttle action more direct and stopped the surging and on the road I don't mind not having EBC.

However given I'd like to take the bike back to the track someday I'm going to see if I can find a solution working with my local tech. I want to rule out physical/electric issues around the clutch switch and then we'll have a look at the tune and see if we can do anything there.
 
WAfatboy said:
I finally worked out it EBC that was causing the problem. Switched it off completely (instead of playing 1-3) an the throttle feels much more direct and doesn't surge at inappropriate times.
Click to expand...

So .... all to do with algorithms or wrist position.

Glad you found what was going wrong......but for ..... sake I read some .... sprouted in this thread. Just when I thought he could not get any worse.
 
bradp51 said:
So .... all to do with algorithms or wrist position.

Glad you found what was going wrong......but for ..... sake I read some .... sprouted in this thread. Just when I thought he could not get any worse.
Click to expand...

Yes it's bloody marvellous to actually find something very specific that you can turn on and off to troubleshoot a problem. Can't believe I never tried turning it off before. Who knows what the actual problem is though but it definitely isn't wrist position ;) I reckons its a fault but need to troubleshoot some more.
 
Your thread got me thinking about the same thing since I was having the same issue, so I went back over my sessions at NOLA. That's why I asked what level you were running DTC. I had it set too high and it shows. Like you, I figured it was my wrist. You can see it had a big effect when leaned over with less effect when on the straight, but you can still see where it cut the fuel briefly.
 

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bwaide said:
Your thread got me thinking about the same thing since I was having the same issue, so I went back over my sessions at NOLA. That's why I asked what level you were running DTC. I had it set too high and it shows. Like you, I figured it was my wrist. You can see it had a big effect when leaned over with less effect when on the straight, but you can still see where it cut the fuel briefly.
Click to expand...

Sorry I meant to answer that, I've had it running at various levels of DTC 2-5 but it's not that in my case, at least not directly. I haven't got the answer yet, and it'll probably turn out to be something simple but the EBC thing was a helpful find.
 
WAfatboy said:
Yes. Its a system that artificially changes the engine RPM, in the words of Ducati...

"?...The engine braking control system (EBC) works in combination with the slipper clutch to prevent and manage any blockage of the rear wheel when aggressively shifting down. If the system detects any slipping of the wheel, it sends a signal to the control device of the engine, which then slightly increases the rpms until the rear wheel resumes a speed conforming to that of the vehicle "

This is why I thought I turn it off and see whether it made any difference...I figured if there's a system that can trigger increases in rpm it might be related

I re-read a few reviews of the system and this journo described the effect

"...what I don't like about it is that when you go from a trailing front brake into corners, then letting off the brake completely, the EBC, still working, gives the bike a tiny shove but enough to make you feel like you're understeering"

I get this feeling when I back off the throttle in normal riding, when the slipper clutch and rear wheel are not being troubled, when I slight back off the throttle (even neutral throttle)

I also noticed that when I pull in the clutch rolling to stop at lights the engine revs blip slightly, and this seems to be connected to the clutch somehow (won't do it at rest in neutral or gear in the garage, I just tried to replicate it).

So given that EBC is an electronic system connected to the throttle I figure turning it off would at least rule it out of the equation, and when I did I immediately felt a difference.

Turning off EBC made the throttle action more direct and stopped the surging and on the road I don't mind not having EBC.

However given I'd like to take the bike back to the track someday I'm going to see if I can find a solution working with my local tech. I want to rule out physical/electric issues around the clutch switch and then we'll have a look at the tune and see if we can do anything there.
Click to expand...


Having read your solution to the problem, I've been riding with the EBC switched to "off" over the last couple of days.

I think the situation is a good deal better with it switched off:)
There's a lot less going on with the throttle bodies, and simplifies the engine braking component of the equation.

I had one instance of a very loud After-fire early on after switching the EBC off.
It was similar to when up shifting when using the quickshifter.
After that, it has been fine ever since;)
 
bwaide said:
Your thread got me thinking about the same thing since I was having the same issue, so I went back over my sessions at NOLA. That's why I asked what level you were running DTC. I had it set too high and it shows. Like you, I figured it was my wrist. You can see it had a big effect when leaned over with less effect when on the straight, but you can still see where it cut the fuel briefly.
Click to expand...

Do you think the EBC is contributing to the problem?

I wonder how to get the best out of the bike when utilizing the EBC:confused:
DUCATI have add it as a feature of the model, but what's it actually designed to do:confused:

How can one benefit the most from it?
 
Brad said:
Having read your solution to the problem, I've been riding with the EBC switched to "off" over the last couple of days.

I think the situation is a good deal better with it switched off:)
There's a lot less going on with the throttle bodies, and simplifies the engine braking component of the equation.

I had one instance of a very loud After-fire early on after switching the EBC off.
It was similar to when up shifting when using the quickshifter.
After that, it has been fine ever since;)
Click to expand...

Glad that it's working for you.

It's not ideal to have to turn off a feature of the bike to make it rideable but I'm hopeful we'll discover that a faulty sensor or switch connected to the EBC is the problem.

Unless you're planning to hammer down through the gears without matching the revs it shouldn't be a problem, it's really a complement to the slipper clutch and TC.
 
EBC is really designed for the track, it's a racing technology that trickled down into the production bikes. It's designed to allow faster corner entries, particularly after very hard braking, there's no other purpose for it that I can see. For me, it would serve no purpose on the street, I could turn it off and never care.
 
You guys might want to talk to Richard Boyd at Desmo Veloce 1-480-717-0444 in AZ. He took the throttle slop out of our 1199R race bikes. He can fix your throttles for $75.00US with a one day turn around once he receives it. Richard is EX Factory Ducati, EX Parts Unlimited Ducati Austin, EX HMC Ducati and the Superbikes are directly supported by Ducati Corse.
 
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jarelj said:
EBC is really designed for the track, it's a racing technology that trickled down into the production bikes. It's designed to allow faster corner entries, particularly after very hard braking, there's no other purpose for it that I can see. For me, it would serve no purpose on the street, I could turn it off and never care.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that:)
It's as I suspected, and is along the lines of what I had in the back of my mind.
 
Oh.
Sadly no:(

It made other things better than I ever imagined though:eek:

Besides it's not a new map.
It was a fuel injector parameter update:p
 
Can he also recalibrate or do whatever to the throttle to make it a shorter twist of the wrist? Something similar to the 1/5 throttle inserts for cable actuated bikes like my ZX-10R?? I hate how long of a throw the 1199 has.

Akillya said:
You guys might want to talk to Richard Boyd at Desmo Veloce 1-480-717-0444 in AZ. He took the throttle slop out of our 1199R race bikes. He can fix your throttles for $75.00US with a one day turn around once he receives it. Richard is EX Factory Ducati, EX Parts Unlimited Ducati Austin, EX HMC Ducati and the Superbikes are directly supported by Ducati Corse.
Click to expand...
 

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