trying something new to quell the heat

so I got around to moving the subframe for the first time. Instead of removing it, I just had it held as high as possible.

And finally, I got the heat shield off.

What's been on my mind is the space between the metal shield and the outer plastic (WHEN will someone make a carbon version for the 1299???). It's just air.

So I took the NASA surplus Pyrogel 3350 insulation I had gotten awhile back, and layered it between the two shields. When I screwed the shields back together, the insulation is now pinned in place.

And with full access to the rear pipe, I rewrapped it, with much closer and tighter wraps, starting from the beginning of the header all the way to the slip joint to the middle section. I just had to make a hole for the O2 sensor. I didn't mess around with metal zip ties this time - I used worm gear clamps.

I need to ride this during the day for awhile, but an idle test yielded some promising results. Bare front pipe was sizzling hot. Wrapped pipe was hot to the touch, but you could touch it. And the plastic heat shield. Barely warm to the touch, all over.

This will either work out very well, end badly in some unforeseen way, or, make no difference. Given the efforts of Panigale owners over the years trying to reinvent the mousetrap, #3 is a distinct possibility....

But the upside? I finally got around to using a T-barb connector to tie the two hoses that vent from the tank into the single hose that drains under the bike. This is an upside because I was able to do it in a way that extended the hoses about 1-2 inches - which makes reattaching the tank MUCH, MUCH easier!

I have measured temperatures several times from the rear subframe. I guess exhaust is affecting, but the frame heat comes from rear cylinder heat. Subframe keeps its heat long after exhaust has cooled down and is following rear cylinder heat.

I am not able to estimate, how much the exhaust is increasing the heat, but the surface temperature of exhaust heat shield (carbon Akra in my bike) is less than subframe temperature when driving. My conclusion is that all attempts with exhaust and heat shield will fail.

Carbon subframe covers make a huge difference on subframe heat.

Raaseri said:

I have measured temperatures several times from the rear subframe. I guess exhaust is affecting, but the frame heat comes from rear cylinder heat. Subframe keeps its heat long after exhaust has cooled down and is following rear cylinder heat.

I am not able to estimate, how much the exhaust is increasing the heat, but the surface temperature of exhaust heat shield (carbon Akra in my bike) is less than subframe temperature when driving. My conclusion is that all attempts with exhaust and heat shield will fail.

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yep, this does nothing for the subframe. I'll order carbon subframe covers when they become available.

subframe heat doesn't get to me too much; my main riding pants are BMW jeans, and their malleable armor serves as a very good insulator for the insides of my knees clamped onto the subframe.

so the test run: urban highway riding, mixed with slow speed riding downtown. Early afternoon, full sun shining, 97 degrees ambient, 45% humidity.

The new heat wrap cooks as it sets. Leaving my neighborhood, at a stoplight the guy next to me was staring at the plumes of smoke coming out from underneath my seat. lol.

It settled in though, and I'd have to say, especially given the weather, that this works, at least better than anything I've tried up to this point. At long stoplights, with my right leg on the ground, I don't feel heat on my leg. Heat coming through the seat is minimal, if it's even there - could just be the hot weather. Highway cruise is finally what I'd call comfortable. I wasn't feeling the bottoms of my thighs roasting.

The Pyrogel was not a miracle insulator - the outer plastic was warm to the touch. But it wasn't scorching hot. Subframe seemed a bit cooler as well, but still hot. Still need to get covers.

The ideal exhaust system would absorb no heat from the exhaust gases and 100% of the heat would go out the exhaust exits. So credit also has to go to the free-flowing Termignoni mufflers.

I might try a couple other things, but in general I'm happy. It's 97 degrees, the weather report says "feels like 103", and I could cruise on the highway without ever shifting position. It's comfortable at stoplights. On the track, when you're WOT a lot more, it might be different, but I doubt significantly so.

Exhaust on my 15R is a lot better than the 14R. No metal heat shield underneath the carbon heat shield and titanium headers don't seem to trap the heat so bad in traffic, its a lot better.

The solution would be a carbon subframe like the superleggera that wouldn't absorb the heat like the alloy one does but nobody makes one. Can you buy the superleggera one or does cost and fitting make it not a viable option?

sexparty said:

Exhaust on my 15R is a lot better than the 14R. No metal heat shield underneath the carbon heat shield and titanium headers don't seem to trap the heat so bad in traffic, its a lot better.

The solution would be a carbon subframe like the superleggera that wouldn't absorb the heat like the alloy one does but nobody makes one. Can you buy the superleggera one or does cost and fitting make it not a viable option?

Click to expand...

I noticed the same thing this weekend when riding my 1299 S after installing the Akra full exhaust, it definitely is running cooler and even with the tiny Akra supplied carbon shield, it doesn't seem to hold the heat as much as when it had the Stock Exhaust.

sexparty said:

Exhaust on my 15R is a lot better than the 14R. No metal heat shield underneath the carbon heat shield and titanium headers don't seem to trap the heat so bad in traffic, its a lot better.

The solution would be a carbon subframe like the superleggera that wouldn't absorb the heat like the alloy one does but nobody makes one. Can you buy the superleggera one or does cost and fitting make it not a viable option?

Click to expand...

I've wondered the same thing, especially as I never use the 1299 for two-up riding. The Superleggera parts fiche isn't available, but I can only imagine that ordering that part from Ducati would cost a frighteningly large amount...

Ordering ANYTHING carbon fiber from Ducati is a ....... ripoff. They charge 3-5x what other companies charge for the exact same thing.

Ordering a CF subframe from Ducati, that is a special part on a special model...good lord...my ... hurts just thinking about it.

I wouldn't be surprised if they would want $2500 for that subframe.

Chaotic said:

Ordering ANYTHING carbon fiber from Ducati is a ....... ripoff. They charge 3-5x what other companies charge for the exact same thing.

Ordering a CF subframe from Ducati, that is a special part on a special model...good lord...my ... hurts just thinking about it.

I wouldn't be surprised if they would want $2500 for that subframe.

Click to expand...

I bet they want more than that. I think i read somewhere the mag SL air box/front end is like $6K so its safe to say the the rear in the same ball park.

yep, ain't paying $6k for no subframe!

ordered carbon subframe covers from Germany.

Which cover you order?
Been looking at some but I ain't using glue to fix a damn cover like some of them require....

this one is a little cheaper lol


ST773 SUBFRAME/ RACE TAIL 1199 Matte Finish - Shift-Tech Carbon

BROsiah said:

this one is a little cheaper lol


ST773 SUBFRAME/ RACE TAIL 1199 Matte Finish - Shift-Tech Carbon

Click to expand...

How much does the stock unit weigh and how much weight is saved with that unit? That is something they tend to leave out of the description, and it is the most important factor.

Are we talking about a 2lbs weight savings, or 20lbs?

Chaotic said:

How much does the stock unit weigh and how much weight is saved with that unit? That is something they tend to leave out of the description, and it is the most important factor.

Are we talking about a 2lbs weight savings, or 20lbs?

Click to expand...

The weights are on here somewhere. I think the Stock unit is in the 8 pound range on the 1199. Motoholders is 2.75 pounds. 899 subframe is heavier, 8.5 or something like that.

I'm going totally off memory here though.

shakazulu12 said:

The weights are on here somewhere. I think the Stock unit is in the 8 pound range on the 1199. Motoholders is 2.75 pounds. 899 subframe is heavier, 8.5 or something like that.

I'm going totally off memory here though.

Click to expand...

That isn't a bad deal assuming the MH unit is $300 or less. 6lb reduction off the top of the bike is nice.

Steveo said:

Which cover you order?
Been looking at some but I ain't using glue to fix a damn cover like some of them require....

Click to expand...

actually, to get the best results, you tape them on

double-sided 3M tape leaves a 1-2mm air gap between the carbon and the frame, and that's what really insulates you from the heat.

Chaotic said:

That isn't a bad deal assuming the MH unit is $300 or less. 6lb reduction off the top of the bike is nice.

Click to expand...

Closer to 500, those things are artwork. Still way better than 2k for a carbon one and within a quarter to a half pound in weight. Plus you can bend it back in shape if you manage to mangle it in a crash.

shakazulu12 said:

Plus you can bend it back in shape if you manage to mangle it in a crash.

Click to expand...

That is the main reason i always change the fairing stay and subframe. They can easily be bent back in a hurry to make the next race.

Spoke to Ducati and the Superleggeras subframe is $6K and I think that was my price not retail. Lol, didn't want to fix the heat that bad.

Shame the shiftech one is race only and incorporates the fairings, if it just replaced the OEM unit id be all over one.