TuneBoy QuickShift settings

HarmonyJim · Sep 26, 2013

On the updated TuneBoy Trim program, where we are allowed to check the Quickshift box, it asks for "Kill Pressure" and "Blip Pressure". "Throttle Speed" is preset to 10, is this correct? Anyone have any info on this? I have emails into Wayne, but am still waiting for a reply from my previous question. Thanks in advance for the help.

Phl · Sep 26, 2013

i'd like to know that too.

veck · Sep 26, 2013

Id like an updated version of the program and 206 map for Tune only users. Still waiting to hear back when its going to be available.

flipper24196 · Sep 26, 2013

veck said:
Id like an updated version of the program and 206 map for Tune only users. Still waiting to hear back when its going to be available.

I assume that like PCV and all the others they can't unlock the closed loop mapping (above 40% throttle). Question is if a company like PC can't do it with all of their resources, experience etc, what chance is there for a small company like TB. It'd be cool though if Wayne blew them all out of the water.

What exactly are you guy's unhappy about, with regards too the quickshifter

Pouakai · Sep 26, 2013

flipper24196 said:
I assume that like PCV and all the others they can't unlock the closed loop mapping (above 40% throttle). Question is if a company like PC can't do it with all of their resources, experience etc, what chance is there for a small company like TB. It'd be cool though if Wayne blew them all out of the water.

What exactly are you guy's unhappy about, with regards too the quickshifter

PCV and TB are completely different approaches to tuning; PCV is a piggy back or add on box so cant affect whether the ECU operates in closed or open loop.
TB is an ECU reflash where the ECU is 'pawned' or reprogrammed to do whatever the the secondary author('hacker') wishes.
TB certainly does operate open loop.

I may be mistaken here but my understanding is a standard system operates in closed loop BELOW 40% throttle. That is certainly how my bike behaves...

Bang for buck I believe it does blow all the other options out of the water !

P

HarmonyJim · Sep 26, 2013

Looking at my TuneBoy trim map for the full Termis, there are numerous positions above 40% throttle that have different values than 0. I just took mine out with Wayne's map for full Termis with cruise control, and it ran beautifully. Pulled strong, no surging at all, full throttle felt good, no popping on shifts or deceleration, Quickshift and cruise (including nudge function) worked perfectly. As a bonus, the bike displayed temps far lower than ever before - I am not sure if this is due to the ability for the sewer pipe sized full Termi headers to move the exhaust out more efficiently, or if Wayne's programming makes it run richer, and therefore cooler. While there are a few negative numbers (indicating leaner than stock values), the majority of values scattered across the map are positive (indicating richer than stock values). Now, I have no idea if the base values are the full Termi program, or these are based on the stock system. My wife, while sitting next to me at a stoplight on her Monster, says she can smell exhaust, so I am inclined to believe it has been richened up somewhere in the map. In the end, I am pleased as can be with the results.

SPJ · Sep 26, 2013

Hi Jim - glad you're pleased with the latest trim file. Out of curiosity when did you receive it? I've been waiting since June for a trim file for the slip on Termi's, hopefully this means that they've got a bike in to tune.

WRT you're initial post I believe the Kill Pressure etc is for clutchless downshifts that Wayne was working on a while back. I think the general concensus was to untag the quickshift box and leave it alone!

HarmonyJim · Sep 26, 2013

SPJ, I received the trim program on August 3rd from Wayne. I never have seen a slip on file though. Thanks in regards to the kill pressure - I just used the old Trim Program, and the QuickShift worked just fine. Thanks for the help.

HarmonyJim · Sep 26, 2013

Wayne contacted me and both of these items (Kill Pressure, and Blip Pressure) have to do with clutchless downshifting, and it must be used with a strain gauge. This is a common feature of MotoGP and WSBK machines.

Pouakai · Sep 27, 2013

HarmonyJim said:
[snip]
Now, I have no idea if the base values are the full Termi program, or these are based on the stock system.
[snip]

Yes in your case the base values are based on the full termi upmap.
Trims are always applied to the currectly selected map bundle (upmap)

P

HarmonyJim · Sep 27, 2013

Pouakai, I have never loaded in the Termi full system map, as I had purchased the headers off an R model. When I attempted to load his USB key, it continually reads "DOWNLOAD ABORTED". I am assuming because it is from an R model, the USB is incompatible with my Tricolore ECU. Am I to understand that I need to start from a full Termi map, and then do the trim from Wayne entitles "Full Termi System"? I started with the 0206 map with cruise from Wayne. It seems to run perfectly so far, but I don't want to be running it lean. Thanks in advance for the assistance.

flipper24196 · Sep 29, 2013

Pouakai said:
PCV and TB are completely different approaches to tuning; PCV is a piggy back or add on box so cant affect whether the ECU operates in closed or open loop.
TB is an ECU reflash where the ECU is 'pawned' or reprogrammed to do whatever the the secondary author('hacker') wishes.
TB certainly does operate open loop.

I may be mistaken here but my understanding is a standard system operates in closed loop BELOW 40% throttle. That is certainly how my bike behaves...

Bang for buck I believe it does blow all the other options out of the water !

P

Sorry man but I think you are mistaken, my reading of it is an 'open loop' ie a pre-determined fueling map that controls the first persentages of throttle openings, things then go to 'closed loop' and the ECU maps are then influenced to makes changes to the fueling from amongst others, the o2 sensors. It does so because the lambda sensors need to get up to temperature in order to operate.

I understand the different principles between the TB and PCV systems, I was just thinking there might be a connection between the fact that the PCV cannot effect the 'closed loop' settings ie higher throttle openings and that TB have only offered a trim file up to 40% throttle. Maybe a coincidence but just wondering if it is difficult to 'crack' into higher end of the range. I see there is some crowd in Seattle claiming that they can 'crack' the ECU, making wonderful claims about getting the Pani back the way God intended. All you have to do is send them your ECU plus a hell of lot more money than TB is asking for.

Thanks for info anyway, I'm hoping to go for the TB soon. Maybe one of the tuning guy's could explain it to us.

Pouakai · Sep 29, 2013

TB has certainly 'cracked' the ECU and can now modify it in any way he has time and energy for. AKAIK all TB firmwares run open loop all of the time. The open loop option alone is TB's most basic option the you have cruise or tuning or both.
The currently available trim file is tuned only to 40% throttle open because it was done on a brand new bike which they didn't want to trash on the dyno.
The O2 sensors have built-in heaters which bring the sensors upto operating temperature in about 20s from key-on. At that point the (or more likely once the engine reaches temperare say 75') the ECU stats collecting data from the O2 sensors and uses that data to adjust the 'adaptive tables'. The ATs build up a memory of O2 readings and this memory is used to smooth out the O2 readings and provide a reading whenever a sensor reading may not be available (like when the sensor is warming up)
The adaptive tables are cleared whenever the battery is disconnected for a period and you sometimes notice a slight character change after a battery disconnect while the tables are being rebuilt. If you ever need to prove this to yourself simply run the bike with sensors in free air. It will be fine for a short while but within 10k the ECU will have added so much fuel to the AT that you soon foul the plug! Above 40% (or somewhere like that) no problem and if you reconnect the battery you go back to the start of the game.
P

Higgs Boson · Sep 29, 2013

flipper24196 said:
Sorry man but I think you are mistaken, my reading of it is an 'open loop' ie a pre-determined fueling map that controls the first persentages of throttle openings, things then go to 'closed loop' and the ECU maps are then influenced to makes changes to the fueling from amongst others, the o2 sensors. It does so because the lambda sensors need to get up to temperature in order to operate.

I understand the different principles between the TB and PCV systems, I was just thinking there might be a connection between the fact that the PCV cannot effect the 'closed loop' settings ie higher throttle openings and that TB have only offered a trim file up to 40% throttle. Maybe a coincidence but just wondering if it is difficult to 'crack' into higher end of the range. I see there is some crowd in Seattle claiming that they can 'crack' the ECU, making wonderful claims about getting the Pani back the way God intended. All you have to do is send them your ECU plus a hell of lot more money than TB is asking for.

Thanks for info anyway, I'm hoping to go for the TB soon. Maybe one of the tuning guy's could explain it to us.

you are 100% incorrect.

do some research, you don't need someone to reinvent the wheel for you.

simply google closed loop vs open loop! easy enough.

tb only MAPPED up to 40%. it doesn't mean they don't have access to it, lol. it means there is too much chance of releasing a map tuned all the way up and blowing someone's engine. no need to risk that. tune it yourself! that's the whole point. only no one here has done it.....

Pouakai · Sep 29, 2013

HarmonyJim said:
Pouakai, I have never loaded in the Termi full system map, as I had purchased the headers off an R model. When I attempted to load his USB key, it continually reads "DOWNLOAD ABORTED". I am assuming because it is from an R model, the USB is incompatible with my Tricolore ECU. Am I to understand that I need to start from a full Termi map, and then do the trim from Wayne entitles "Full Termi System"? I started with the 0206 map with cruise from Wayne. It seems to run perfectly so far, but I don't want to be running it lean. Thanks in advance for the assistance.

Yuh HJ if you want run a full termi on an S or base AND use only 'canned' (off the self) map elements then you should start with the 'RACING EVO' up-map and then add a TB trim according to taste. If course there is nothing to stop you starting with a base tune and sticking your full termi bike on the dyno and developing the full trim file for that combo just the numbers in the trim table will be a larger correction than if you started from a closer 'up-map'
P

HarmonyJim · Sep 30, 2013

Thanks Pouakai for the info. Anyone out there have a Racing EVO usb that I can borrow or rent? Do you agree that the reason the R model model won't load has to do with a model incompatibility? Thanks for the help.

flipper24196 · Sep 30, 2013

Pouakai said:
TB has certainly 'cracked' the ECU and can now modify it in any way he has time and energy for. AKAIK all TB firmwares run open loop all of the time. The open loop option alone is TB's most basic option the you have cruise or tuning or both.
The currently available trim file is tuned only to 40% throttle open because it was done on a brand new bike which they didn't want to trash on the dyno.
The O2 sensors have built-in heaters which bring the sensors upto operating temperature in about 20s from key-on. At that point the (or more likely once the engine reaches temperare say 75') the ECU stats collecting data from the O2 sensors and uses that data to adjust the 'adaptive tables'. The ATs build up a memory of O2 readings and this memory is used to smooth out the O2 readings and provide a reading whenever a sensor reading may not be available (like when the sensor is warming up)
The adaptive tables are cleared whenever the battery is disconnected for a period and you sometimes notice a slight character change after a battery disconnect while the tables are being rebuilt. If you ever need to prove this to yourself simply run the bike with sensors in free air. It will be fine for a short while but within 10k the ECU will have added so much fuel to the AT that you soon foul the plug! Above 40% (or somewhere like that) no problem and if you reconnect the battery you go back to the start of the game.
P

Thanks P, that's very interesting and really informative, I think I'll give the plug fouling part a miss if you don't mind

I'll happily take your word for it. I didn't realise it was a new bike they used, that would explain the 40% alright. I seem to remember reading somewhere that TB turns the o2 sensors off (so to speak) is that correct ? Any knowledge as to why Dynojet can't influence the 'open loop' ? Thanks again that really explained alot.

flipper24196 · Sep 30, 2013

Higgs Boson said:
you are 100% incorrect.

do some research, you don't need someone to reinvent the wheel for you.

simply google closed loop vs open loop! easy enough.

tb only MAPPED up to 40%. it doesn't mean they don't have access to it, lol. it means there is too much chance of releasing a map tuned all the way up and blowing someone's engine. no need to risk that. tune it yourself! that's the whole point. only no one here has done it.....

Jesus man did I piss in your Corn Flakes ? Why the lousy attitude ? Take a leaf out of Pouakai's book, a nice informative post.....job done.
I (and others) use forums like this to learn amongst other things from good people the like of Pouakai and other knowledgeable guy's here.

One thing for sure I don't need to google is the fact that you wouldn't dare speak to me like that face to face, but I suppose the old key board let's little guy's like you run with the big dogs, I assume you were bullied a lot in school.

Higgs Boson · Sep 30, 2013

flipper24196 said:
Jesus man did I piss in your Corn Flakes ? Why the lousy attitude ? Take a leaf out of Pouakai's book, a nice informative post.....job done.
I (and others) use forums like this to learn amongst other things from good people the like of Pouakai and other knowledgeable guy's here.

One thing for sure I don't need to google is the fact that you wouldn't dare speak to me like that face to face, but I suppose the old key board let's little guy's like you run with the big dogs, I assume you were bullied a lot in school.

Sorry you took offense to my post. No, I wasn't bullied, and no, I make no changes to my speech in person or not. I don't suffer fools well and when you post misinformation with such confidence my corn flakes do indeed taste like piss. You asked no question, only made statements. I also made no comment about you personally, so I am not sure why you are going there....seems a bit childish. And pointless considering you are in Ireland....I'll be in Germany in November if you want to hang out.

Pouakai · Sep 30, 2013

HarmonyJim said:
Thanks Pouakai for the info. Anyone out there have a Racing EVO usb that I can borrow or rent? Do you agree that the reason the R model model won't load has to do with a model incompatibility? Thanks for the help.

Yeah I do think that is the reason. Borrowing an up-map might be tricky tho as they 'attach' to a single bike only. Ie when you give back to the stick you have to give back the map and you are back to the start. You can prove a point a point though I guess. Don't forget that if you have access to the dyno it doesn't really matter which map you start with.
P

TuneBoy QuickShift settings

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