Update on the Ducati GP12

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And that's why they get paid the big bucks!

I would have already spotted my ejection point and let go. (probably a few corners before) :)

Just spent an hour watching all the videos from the Sepang test on Motogp.com. I know it has been three months, but those 1000cc motogp bikes are visibly quicker. The top five, looked and were fast. Rossi even looked like he was enjoying riding again.

In the midst of all the nice sounding GP bikes comes the decisively WSBK sounds of the CRT bikes. Colin looked slow, very slow compared the the real GP boys. Will be an interesting season.
 
Is that pic of Rossi for real ? I know they slide the rear , but cmon ! It does'nt look like he's anywhere near a realistic line to enter the turn. I'm calling photochop. Maybe if he was on a flat tracker. Insane.
 
Is that pic of Rossi for real ? I know they slide the rear , but cmon ! It does'nt look like he's anywhere near a realistic line to enter the turn. I'm calling photochop. Maybe if he was on a flat tracker. Insane.

Oh its real!!!
 
The pic was taken with a very long lens which forshortens the perspective.

Pictures of sailboat races make them look like they're about to collide, when they aren't very close.

If
 
Yeah, that's a common shot from Sepang - I've seen them of Stoner, Sic, everyone practically, looking like they're backing it in that corner at huge angles. Illusion or not, it looks damn cool...

As for the results, those day 3 test times are actually closer than you'd think from looking at everyone's FL only. Looks like they all went out and got a fast lap or two in for a baseline and started tinkering from there, plus the track conditions deteriorated later in the session. I looked at the top ten laps for each of the fast guys, and Lorenzo actually went the quickest over the ten laps, averaging 2:00.5, about .4 under Stoner's average time and being incredibly consistent. Pedrosa, Spies and Rossi were just back of those two at 2:01.1-2:01.3. Basically about even since the differences from rider to rider were inside their own std. devs. Next clump was Bautista, Dovi, Barbera and Crutchlow, again all about dead even at 2:01.8-2:01.9 over ten laps. Couldn't really tell anything about Nicky's pace since he was riding hurt and obviously not pushing it. Dovizioso was aching too and still going quick, so he should inch up to the 2nd bunch and contend for podiums. Bradl's looking promising once he comes to terms with the RC213V.

So looking significantly better than last year for Ducati. Still a ways to go but the base platform is obviously much improved. Surprise of the bunch for me has to be Barbera on the GP0.
 
Sorry folks about my previous comment.. Ducati have to congradulated for producing a new bike that works so quickly and yes that is an amazing picture. And if the improvements are just starting then MotoGp will be great to watch this year.
 
As I see it this new frame is a loosing proposition no matter what happens, let me explain:
If Ducati looses with it they will have wasted a year of racing funds and R&D on a product they will never bring to market because the frame is old technology used and developed for many years by the Japanese manufactures. I don't see Ducati adapting this frame to any of their production bikes, and I don't think ducatista would like it much because it derails the evolutionary path for ducati.

The only good it does is allow Rossi and Burgess to fine tune the bike's balance.

If Rossi Starts winning with this bike the press and all of the fans will say they won on a Yamati or a Duconda. The press and the fans will not be kind to Ducati and thier ....... bike with any hint of success.
Ducati has sold it's soul to win and to allow the goat to ride what he knows. Perhaps it'll be worth it? but I doubt it.
 
As I see it this new frame is a loosing proposition no matter what happens.....

Ducati has sold it's soul to win and to allow the goat to ride what he knows. Perhaps it'll be worth it? but I doubt it.

That's a hard line flynbulldog. I understand where you are coming from though I see it as Ducati is trying to produce a bike that works with DORNA's current rules for MotoGP, not that they are selling their souls. If Ducati followed this path for WSBK and SuperSport racing or were bringing their twin spar GP12 to production, then maybe.

Ducati is still following the philosophy of "Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday". With the popularity of MotoGP rising, if hey are not winning in the highest class of motorbike racing, then the next generation of possible ducatisti will look to Honda or Yamaha as the best manufacture. Sure, in time like most of us, after being in this sport for a few years they will come to understand the Ducati brand but that initial attraction and loyalty will have been missed.

If Ducati are winning in MotoGP, the young generation will not care that they are doing so with twin spar frame v/s the monocoque chassis, they'll just celebrate a Ducati win.

Irrespective of the frame design they are using, I'm hopeful that Ducati will do good this year. After all, Ducati winning in MotoGP can only be a good thing for us. If it means that us true Ducatisti think Ducati has sold a little bit of its soul, I'm sure we'll get over it the first time a Ducati rider raises the winner's trophy again.
 
yeah, it is a little harsh and it's not the way I personally feel.

I'm just looking into my crystal ball and thinking how many motogp fans that are not ducati hard liners will react
to a frame that looks like it was popped off a japanese bike and bolted to the duc.

I'll bet there will be some tough critics out there...

Personally I don't care how they build it and I'd like to see Rossi kick butt this year! ;)
 
yeah, it is a little harsh and it's not the way I personally feel.

I'm just looking into my crystal ball and thinking...

I hope you got that crystal ball from the same .... that foretold of fortunes coming my way... ;)
 
I bought a piece of that soul! Should be here in April :) Interesting post though flynbulldog.
 
In the latest Ausralian MC magazine Stoner is already critising it... Feb2012 p63 interview "If Ducati do become competitive it is still not a ducati, its basically them designing a Yamaha with Ducati branding"..

Even the interviewer in one question was "Ducati appears to be spending a lot of money; what do you think of their Japanese style aluminium twin spar inspired by Valentino?"

He also said.."If you want it like a Yamaha then go and ride a Yamaha, if you are going to have a Ducati then ride it like a Ducati, and I think that is where they have made a wrong decision.

Maybe that is him sticking it to Rossi now a little bit after he took so much critisism earlier on... but he has ridden the Ducati so is able to make comment.
 
Another thought We dont know what the deal is with Rossi and Ducati but it must have been expensive and they do need to be competitve 2nd season and it seems as if they are which really is saying something for Ducati development team.
Anyway regardless of GP didnt Ducati have a bumper selling season last year and Checa won on a 1098r.
One thing is for sure we are all going to know what a monocoque frame feels like real soon and I bet for us its going to be nothing short of GREAT.
I read somewhere that one of the designers of the Panagale had a picture of the Britten on his wall. I thought it was in the MCN article but couldnt find it when looking back.
 
Yeah, Stoner's not Rossi's biggest fan, for sure; nature of the competitive beast. But it's a cheap shot calling it a Yamaha. What it has become is more of a cookie-cutter 2012 MotoGP bike, that when you consider it in total is really more like a...Honda.

Every series that has a really locked-down spec, especially one with spec tires, will see everyone's designs eventually coalesce around what works best, and Ducati have simply had to assimilate to compete. Forget who's better, Stoner or Rossi; it was obvious the carbon monocoque just wasn't the best solution for the series.

Abandoning their signature new design was no doubt a bitter pill for Ducati to swallow, especially when the whole business of getting Rossi on board for big $$ was intended to bring them a world championship just in time to launch their all-new superbike that incorporated a mix of SBK and MotoGP in terms of design. Checa salvaged it for them to an extent by unexpectedly winning the WSBK title on their old bike and they've spun the MotoGP issues well-enough, but it for sure wasn't the launch they were hoping for.

Once the 1199 is released to the media (and us, the public), the monocoque chassis is really going to be the focus of everyone given all the above. The engine looks great and should be a big step forward, but it's evolutionary not revolutionary, and most of other other bits have been done in pieces elsewhere before. So it's the monocoque chassis and what it brings to the ride that will tell the tale. I think it's pretty safe to say that it will be the stiffest superbike chassis available in terms of torsional and bending stiffness; you just can't have much flex in that front airbox/subframe and maintain the strength you need. What remains to be seen is how that will play out in ride and handling qualities given the rest of the design. Should be fantastic anywhere except mega lean/load (which is of course where the GP guys were suffering with it), so arguably great for a streetbike but not as much so for a racebike. So for most folks it'll be the lightest, fastest, coolest bike they ever rode. Just hope the wheelie-boys don't get too carried away; one hates to think of the stresses on those two studs holding the front of that monocoque to the head under a hard drop. Good thing it ain't a Gixxer... ;-)

Anywho, we shall see soon enough. Doubt much of value in terms of true race-worthiness of the platform will come from the first-ride stuff that'll flow from this weekend's rollout, as that will likely be gushing praise and drool. It'll be down the pipe when it's time for Masterbike and other comparo's with spec tires and data-logging when the true nature of the beast will be revealed.
 
So you guys know and have a bit more insight as to why Ducati went to a more traditional frame. The major contributor to the issues with last years GP bike were the tires and how stiff the carcass is. Many times Rossi has said you can push the bike to a point and then without warning the bike loses traction. He had no feel in the front end which was a dire combination of the tire and the monochassis. Now with Loris Capirossi assisting Bridgestone and gathering info from the riders his unique perspective can be put to use so that the tires become better for all but it should really help the Ducati. Tires will still be made in bulk and not specifically for any one manufacturer or bike. However with Loris you would expect that the tires should pair better with the DUC. If these tires are able to get to temp faster and more consistently, the bike will do better. Every indication so far points to these facts, especially now after the Sepang test. Let's hope this year is one hell of a break out year for Ducati and Rossi. If he has a decent to good year, I would expect to see Rossi in Red for the next two years without question.
 

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