Installing the 24 degree kit w/pics

[wilkson]

This kit will make the wheelbase shorter and bring the front wheel in closer to the radiator .

 

[bjorgens]

Right... Hence my interest in the headstock spacers that will be used in the 2015 R which keep the same steeper rake angle, but shifted forward 5mm

 

[jogy]

The 899 also has a rake angle of 24°, but I don't know which pivot hight compared to 1199.

According to Ducati Website, the rake Angle of 1199 is 24°50' which is 24.83333°


Anyway, if you increase the rear ride hight by 10mm, the rake angle will decrease by appr. 0.5° or 30', just for info.

So by inreasing the right high by 10 mm (compared to stock setting) you also get an increased agility. I did it on my 1199S (with adjusting the shock length on the blue nut) and I'm fully happy with the handling (stree use only).

 

[Doug916SP]

Part numbers for 24 degree kit

Part #'s, two (2) ea.:
75610361AA
70241241A
93041911A

 

[imbloodyskintagain]

Brilliant,
Glad I found this thread.

Dealer told me I would need to get the old inserts/bushings very, very hot to remove them. Which dint fancy doing.

 

[Marmoot]

I'm not advocating this change for any model other than the "R" because of the ability to adjust the swingarm to replicate the 2015 models (ie. 24 deg. rake and -4mm swingarm).

In my ride report I stated that I'm running -2mm on my swingarm, partly because that's where I had it before the install of the 24 degree rake kit and partly because I like a quick steering bike.

The 2012-2014 base and "S" have what would be 0 degree swingarm position. Putting this kit in a Base or S would result in VERY Quick steering and maybe a tendancy for front-end-tuck.

Sorry I didn't make this clearer. This kit is sold for track use.

Good sir, without wanting to ask for too much considering what you have done for humanity, would it be possible one day for you to run the 0 swingarm pivot and report back how it differs and if the handling is bad/acceptable/good?

For science...

 

[Prince Albert]

So on a non "R" model, this would not be advisable for the street I assume because of the lack of swing-arm adjustment..correct?

 

[tadashi]

So on a non "R" model, this would not be advisable for the street I assume because of the lack of swing-arm adjustment..correct?

The 2 geometry changes can compliment each other.

But no, one will work just fine without the other.


....


Getting the top plate in was a breeze, the lower was not enjoyable at all

 

[Doug916SP]

This the story on the '15R bushing

Add #2015 Panigale R Secret Revealed?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As you may remember, I documented (w/photos) my install of the 24 degree bearing housings in my 2013 Pani R. The results were a great improvement in all handling areas.

But, since I’m a curious sort, the description of the ’15 R as having 5 mm increase wheelbase caught my eye. Did the factory change the triples? If so, wouldn’t this slow down the handling while promoting greater high speed stability? And … how could I do this for my bike?

Here are the parts from the microfiche for the 2015:

They do move the upper and lower housings forward 5 mm as expected…..but, and here is the “secret”: the new fork angle is 23.5 degrees!!!!! NOT the 24 advertised!

HooHah! I probably won’t install them but they do use the sealed bearings rather than the “loose balls” of the originals.

I’m pleased with my 24 degree setup.
Here are '15R part #76510422AA
& #75610433AA

 

[imbloodyskintagain]

DAMN IT!!!

More bloody money, Just realised the bush kit from dealer doesn't include new bearing cups or dust covers, so need to buy them now.

 

[b9009b]

DAMN IT!!!

More bloody money, Just realised the bush kit from dealer doesn't include new bearing cups or dust covers, so need to buy them now.

Call Jarel thats where I got mine..

 

[imbloodyskintagain]

Call Jarel thats where I got mine..

Sorry,
I'm in UK, so (Ducati) DMC in Preston is just a bit closer to me

Got the dust seals out, just need new bearing cups now.

 

[wowjudo]

Does anyone know where to purchase this degree kit ?

 

[mali]

Add #2015 Panigale R Secret Revealed?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As you may remember, I documented (w/photos) my install of the 24 degree bearing housings in my 2013 Pani R. The results were a great improvement in all handling areas.

But, since I'm a curious sort, the description of the '15 R as having 5 mm increase wheelbase caught my eye. Did the factory change the triples? If so, wouldn't this slow down the handling while promoting greater high speed stability? And "¦ how could I do this for my bike?

Here are the parts from the microfiche for the 2015:

They do move the upper and lower housings forward 5 mm as expected"¦..but, and here is the "secret": the new fork angle is 23.5 degrees!!!!! NOT the 24 advertised!

HooHah! I probably won't install them but they do use the sealed bearings rather than the "loose balls" of the originals.

I'm pleased with my 24 degree setup.
Here are '15R part #76510422AA
& #75610433AA

I went ahead with this change recently and it made a massive difference to how the bike behaves now, however I have ended up with a problem - I cannot lock the steering. The 23.5 degree angle along with an increase of 5mm in the wheel base renders the current top yoke useless.

Would any one know how to get around this issue? Are after market top yokes any good after such a change is made to this bike?

 

[Spud312r]

I went ahead with this change recently and it made a massive difference to how the bike behaves now, however I have ended up with a problem - I cannot lock the steering. The 23.5 degree angle along with an increase of 5mm in the wheel base renders the current top yoke useless.

Would any one know how to get around this issue? Are after market top yokes any good after such a change is made to this bike?

I just bought the bushes from Moto Rapido in the uk, on invoice it states

75610361AA part ordered
STEERING BUSH OPTION 1199R/899
24.5 deg 5MM = L MARKING ON RIGHT
23.5 DEG -5MM = L MARKING ON LEFT

So if i install with the L on the left , i get -5mm and 23.5deg which will surely reduce the wheelbase ie bring front closerr to rear ??

One question i have, is by doing this shorter rake,
will it actually raise the front ?

And if we dont do the swing arm -4mm fix, will we have to drop the forks a bit to level the bike out ??

 

[Doug916SP]

Installing 23.5 kit

As an old ex-club racer/retired trackday whore, my suspension setup knowledge is shockingly limited.
As stated, I loved the 24 degree kit w/-2 swingarm change on my 2013 R model.
In the Ducati race pits @ Laguna WSB, w/Ernesto Martinelli, referring to Corsa set-up: Their 23.5(?) front was coupled w/different pivot point AND 20mm(?) longer swingarm. These settings varied according to track and rider preferences. Who can forget Marco Melandry's vicious headshakes on straights.

Changing frontend geometry involves both top and bottom plates. Steepening to 23.5 requires stretching wheelbase by 5mm despite losing fork lock. To use this on R models involved changing swingarm pivot to -4 or -2. OR lengthening it! ...and perhaps raising or lowering forks and/or doing the same to rear ride height.
Some folks just change upper and lower triples, along with swingarm changes. That was the fix on the old 916s ala Ferracci.

Please don't think I'm advocating ANY of these changes.

 

[Spud312r]

As an old ex-club racer/retired trackday whore, my suspension setup knowledge is shockingly limited.
As stated, I loved the 24 degree kit w/-2 swingarm change on my 2013 R model.
In the Ducati race pits @ Laguna WSB, w/Ernesto Martinelli, referring to Corsa set-up: Their 23.5(?) front was coupled w/different pivot point AND 20mm(?) longer swingarm. These settings varied according to track and rider preferences. Who can forget Marco Melandry's vicious headshakes on straights.

Changing frontend geometry involves both top and bottom plates. Steepening to 23.5 requires stretching wheelbase by 5mm despite losing fork lock. To use this on R models involved changing swingarm pivot to -4 or -2. OR lengthening it! ...and perhaps raising or lowering forks and/or doing the same to rear ride height.
Some folks just change upper and lower triples, along with swingarm changes. That was the fix on the old 916s ala Ferracci.

Please don't think I'm advocating ANY of these changes.

Hi Doug

"Steepening to 23.5 requires stretching wheelbase by 5mm "
Dont you mean reducing wheelbase ??

"More rake does two things: one, it makes the wheelbase longer, and two, it generally increases a motorcycle's trail."

https://www.cycleworld.com/2015/05/...ricks-understanding-motorcycle-rake-and-trail

I have a 1199S so obvioulsy dont have the R swingarm pivot but have priced that up if i need to go down that path...

It's weird that the actual plates 75610361AA deovered are 23.5 and NOT the 24deg as expected ..

And i would assume that a 1 deg change is rather radical to say the least - is it to much without the swingarm change ??!

 

[Doug916SP]

24 degree compared to 23.5 kit

24 degree compared to 23.5 kit

The 23.5 kit DOES lengthen the wheelbase by 5mm. Both top and bottom holes move the shaft forward 5mm. This change moves top triple forward so much that the steering lock pin can’t reach. Top and bottom plates are not interchangeable and use sealed bearings.

The 24 kit Does reduce the wheelbase slightly, but still clears lower bodywork. Again, top and bottom plates not interchangeble! Part #'s: 75610361AA & 76241241A

I realize Ducati does sometime change part numbers for same part, but the 23.5 top and bottom are not interchangeable!. Both plates move the stem forward, otherwise the tire would contact the lower bodywork, I suppose. Also, such a steep fork angle requires a Longer wheelbase. (…and maybe a longer swingarm??) Part #'s: 76510422AA & 75610433AA

See, this why I don’t venture into inventing my own bike setup and leave it up to the experts. Look at the 899: a simple .5 degree change made the bike handle Sooo much better that Ducati applied the 24 degree to the 1299. And, the -4 on the “R” swingarm pivot was brought to the 1299. The 23.5 on the ’15 “R” made it a better track weapon. I’d like to know the SL geometry. I assume it’s the same as the 1299??

Doesn't someone offer upper and lower triples w/inserts that alter rake? That would make setup experiments easier than pounding out upper and lower plates.

 

[Spud312r]

24 degree compared to 23.5 kit

The 23.5 kit DOES lengthen the wheelbase by 5mm. Both top and bottom holes move the shaft forward 5mm. This change moves top triple forward so much that the steering lock pin can’t reach. Top and bottom plates are not interchangeable and use sealed bearings.

The 24 kit Does reduce the wheelbase slightly, but still clears lower bodywork. Again, top and bottom plates not interchangeble! Part #'s: 75610361AA & 76241241A

I realize Ducati does sometime change part numbers for same part, but the 23.5 top and bottom are not interchangeable!. Both plates move the stem forward, otherwise the tire would contact the lower bodywork, I suppose. Also, such a steep fork angle requires a Longer wheelbase. (…and maybe a longer swingarm??) Part #'s: 76510422AA & 75610433AA

See, this why I don’t venture into inventing my own bike setup and leave it up to the experts. Look at the 899: a simple .5 degree change made the bike handle Sooo much better that Ducati applied the 24 degree to the 1299. And, the -4 on the “R” swingarm pivot was brought to the 1299. The 23.5 on the ’15 “R” made it a better track weapon. I’d like to know the SL geometry. I assume it’s the same as the 1299??

Doesn't someone offer upper and lower triples w/inserts that alter rake? That would make setup experiments easier than pounding out upper and lower plates.

Hi Fella

I'm confused..
----------------------------------
"The 23.5 kit DOES lengthen the wheelbase by 5mm. Both top and bottom holes move the shaft forward 5mm."

If you have the top plate with the -5mm pointing forward which moves the top of the forks in yoke forward - and the bottom plate with the -5mm point backwards which moves the bottom of the forks in yoke backwards , thats what changes the Rake, if the plates were the same -5mm facing forward top and bottom you'd just be lengthening the wheel base not the rake ??

----------------------------------
"Top and bottom plates are not interchangeable and use sealed bearings."

They have the same part number stamped on them ?!

----------------------------------
"The 24 kit Does reduce the wheelbase slightly, but still clears lower bodywork. Again, top and bottom plates not interchangeble! Part #'s: 75610361AA & 76241241A"

I dont see where you got the part number 76241241A from ?? its not on the microfish of the 1199R upto 2016

https://www.bike-parts-ducati.com/ducati-motorcycle/Superbike

And if you check the microfishe they are the same part number top and bottom ?!


Figured it out and was what i expected...

https://www.ducatiforum.co.uk/threads/removal-of-steering-head-bearings.65546/#post-1213589

 

[Doug916SP]

Your pics are not the 23.5 inserts, at least they don't look like mine. The holes are too close to being centered. I suspect they are the 1299 plates. With the 23.5, the shaft is moved Forward 5mm, both at the top and bottom to extend the wheelbase. If the hole at the top was 5mm forward and the lower was 5mm rearward, the rake would be like 14 degrees w/tire hitting the lower fairing!

Anyway my 23.5 part numbers are stamped on each piece. I don't plan to install them anyway as I'm satisfied with my 24 degree setup.

My 24 degree kit came from Jarel and was for the 899, I believe. That's where I got the part numbers.

Good luck with the project and let us know the progress.