- Joined
- May 12, 2016
- Messages
- 98
- Location
- Louisville, KY
I typed this up once before, but my thread was moderated, removed, or something, so I took the time to re-write it and post it again, without any links to my R1 build thread on an R1 forum so people could see it, so hopefully this will let it be posted.
Before I tell you my impression of the 1299 S, let me preface it by saying it will be my only bike, and I plan on using it, but out of the box, in comparison to my R1, it's quite lacking. The suspension needs work, the brakes need work, throttle response needs some work, the clutch feel is inconsistent, the heat is well... we all know about it, the bike feels heavy under braking/turning, and I the mirrors are useless. Needless to say, in direct comparison, I felt a little lackluster in my initial feeling on the 1299 S, but I did end up buying it, and with some work, it will be good.
Ok, before you get mad, I have had my 07 R1 since I bought it new in March of 2008. In direct comparison of the two stock, I would agree the 1299 S is hands down better... stock. But with all my upgrades, I had my R1 at 387 pounds wet in street trim, and under 370 pounds in track trim. Anyone that has ridden the R1, including a buddy in the area that has ridden at the Isle of Man TT, agrees it was one of the best setup bikes they had ridden. I spent a lot of time thinking about the parts I needed to change to improve handling, to improve braking, give me some performance, all to help my own (at the time) 350 pound self. And even though I weighed 350 pounds, I was/am still fairly quick at the track, 2:02 and change at NCM, 1:17:95 at Putnam, so I could hold my own for someone that now does about 3-5 days on the track a year (my fastest times were this year, around 290# weight).
I started riding in 2007, on an 2001 SV650, did 22 track days in 2008, 19 days in 2009 on a 2004 GSXR 750, while riding the R1 on the street. I figured out quickly what it meant to have good suspension, and continued to fix up the R1 planning to move it as my track/street bike in 2010. Ohlins R&T directional forks, TTX shock, Brembo brakes, Brembo 19RCS master, BrakeTech CMC rotors, BST wheels with ceramic rotors, lots of titanium, Bazzaz TC/QS/FI, AIM MXL Pista dash, and the list goes on and on. When done with the R1, riding it both track and street by 2010, it felt like a 250 getting flicked in a corner, you looked, and it just fell in. A few card carrying racer friends even had to adjust their lines on the track because it tracked so easily, and braked so hard, they could run another 20 feet further in a turn before braking.
So yeah, it's not fully fair that I compare directly the 1299 S, stock, to my built R1, but being I have ridden the previous bike for 8 full seasons, I will say a direct comparison is what I have to give. I split street time over the past few years between the R1 and my (built) Yamaha FZ1, which had the old R1 forks for Race Tech Gold valving, the R1 6 piston calipers, and the R1 rotors, with an Ohlins rear shock. It actually handled better than many of the stock 600's I would "swap" for a few corners as I was looking for a new track bike. Last year I rode 14k miles on the street/track, and this year is going to be closer to 16k by current estimates. (10 sets of tires last year, including the track slicks).
So, what do I like, I of course love the looks, always liked a Ducati. I thought I was going to get away from some of the heat, being the R1 is an undertail exhaust, and this... wasn't. That was wrong and I am sure I will find a few ways to reduce the heat, going to suck in the 95+ heat with 90+% humidity of the Ohio Valley area. I love the narrow bike, and smaller feel, just not the heavy turn in. Once I drop at least 10 pounds of rotating mass, that should help with the handling and turn in, and this should easily be done by moving over my BrakeTech CMC rotors (getting new carriers installed), BST wheels, and some titanium bits. I can see where this will put a bigger smile on my face. Of course I have had quick shifting since 2009/2010 when I installed the Bazzaz, but the auto-blipping downshift is a nice feature for sure, and I could see it shaving a half a second off track times. I have enjoyed the dynamic suspension, but I need to get proper weighted springs for my now 280 pound frame (I have lost 100 pounds from my heaviest and still losing, so fat guys can still be fast, as I was 376 pounds at my heaviest and was still riding advanced). Then dial in the suspension should help with the rest of the handling. The CMC rotors with XRAC pads will help with the braking quite a bit, giving me that initial bite that I love, and a smoother feel. Right now the brakes feel like wood, progressive feel, but no bite initially, and then seems to tapper once hard on the brakes.
Power. It's different. I have ridden a V-twin on more than one occasion, and put 13k miles on my SV650 in 8 months, so I understand the power band, but coming from an I4, where the power is 8k+, it's different when you have a bike that applies the power closer to the 4-5k zone and pulls equally from there. I am used to a tame bike down low, and then a rocket ship from 9k-14k, but I can say I can feel the torque difference. My R1 dyno'd at 164-167 HP, and I don't remember the torque, but I know it was higher than all the other R1s at the few dyno nights I attended, and equaled many of the other liter bikes that were there. I have put around 600 miles in the week I have owned the 1299 S, and I am now getting used to the power band a bit better, not bouncing off a rev limiter when passing someone, just have to keep in mind "short shift".
So my initial impression was more "meh" than I would have hoped, but I can see where the 1299 S "will" get to be a bike that is better than what I am accustomed on the R1, but I had hoped for a bit more out of the box than what I got. I have a full Akra system I am picking up tonight, TuneBoy is somewhere between there and here, PAIR block off plates are arriving today, and will be picking up a Sprint P08 air filter, and once the TuneBoy arrives, I will be getting it dyno tuned for the upgraded. The CMC rotors are going back to BrakeTech on Monday for new carriers, and once I sell a few of my goodies off the R1 (parting it and returning it to 'mostly' stock and selling it), I will be getting a set of BST wheels, and doing some other changes to the 1299 S. Things to get a better 'fit' for me.
But again, with all this said, it was enough of a bike on the test ride for me to buy it, where ALL other bikes I have ridden felt like a definite downgrade from the R1 (2016 R1M, 2016 BMW S1000RR, 2016 Kawi ZX-10), but with this, I could see the potential at least, plus the fact I have had a desire for a Ducati since before I started riding. It WILL be better than my R1, and will see ample track time, and street time, to me, if you don't know better, it's great out of the box, if you have ridden a bike setup, it's going to be like ANY other bike, and will need work. It was a toss up for the R1M and this, and well, Red won out.
Before I tell you my impression of the 1299 S, let me preface it by saying it will be my only bike, and I plan on using it, but out of the box, in comparison to my R1, it's quite lacking. The suspension needs work, the brakes need work, throttle response needs some work, the clutch feel is inconsistent, the heat is well... we all know about it, the bike feels heavy under braking/turning, and I the mirrors are useless. Needless to say, in direct comparison, I felt a little lackluster in my initial feeling on the 1299 S, but I did end up buying it, and with some work, it will be good.
Ok, before you get mad, I have had my 07 R1 since I bought it new in March of 2008. In direct comparison of the two stock, I would agree the 1299 S is hands down better... stock. But with all my upgrades, I had my R1 at 387 pounds wet in street trim, and under 370 pounds in track trim. Anyone that has ridden the R1, including a buddy in the area that has ridden at the Isle of Man TT, agrees it was one of the best setup bikes they had ridden. I spent a lot of time thinking about the parts I needed to change to improve handling, to improve braking, give me some performance, all to help my own (at the time) 350 pound self. And even though I weighed 350 pounds, I was/am still fairly quick at the track, 2:02 and change at NCM, 1:17:95 at Putnam, so I could hold my own for someone that now does about 3-5 days on the track a year (my fastest times were this year, around 290# weight).
I started riding in 2007, on an 2001 SV650, did 22 track days in 2008, 19 days in 2009 on a 2004 GSXR 750, while riding the R1 on the street. I figured out quickly what it meant to have good suspension, and continued to fix up the R1 planning to move it as my track/street bike in 2010. Ohlins R&T directional forks, TTX shock, Brembo brakes, Brembo 19RCS master, BrakeTech CMC rotors, BST wheels with ceramic rotors, lots of titanium, Bazzaz TC/QS/FI, AIM MXL Pista dash, and the list goes on and on. When done with the R1, riding it both track and street by 2010, it felt like a 250 getting flicked in a corner, you looked, and it just fell in. A few card carrying racer friends even had to adjust their lines on the track because it tracked so easily, and braked so hard, they could run another 20 feet further in a turn before braking.
So yeah, it's not fully fair that I compare directly the 1299 S, stock, to my built R1, but being I have ridden the previous bike for 8 full seasons, I will say a direct comparison is what I have to give. I split street time over the past few years between the R1 and my (built) Yamaha FZ1, which had the old R1 forks for Race Tech Gold valving, the R1 6 piston calipers, and the R1 rotors, with an Ohlins rear shock. It actually handled better than many of the stock 600's I would "swap" for a few corners as I was looking for a new track bike. Last year I rode 14k miles on the street/track, and this year is going to be closer to 16k by current estimates. (10 sets of tires last year, including the track slicks).
So, what do I like, I of course love the looks, always liked a Ducati. I thought I was going to get away from some of the heat, being the R1 is an undertail exhaust, and this... wasn't. That was wrong and I am sure I will find a few ways to reduce the heat, going to suck in the 95+ heat with 90+% humidity of the Ohio Valley area. I love the narrow bike, and smaller feel, just not the heavy turn in. Once I drop at least 10 pounds of rotating mass, that should help with the handling and turn in, and this should easily be done by moving over my BrakeTech CMC rotors (getting new carriers installed), BST wheels, and some titanium bits. I can see where this will put a bigger smile on my face. Of course I have had quick shifting since 2009/2010 when I installed the Bazzaz, but the auto-blipping downshift is a nice feature for sure, and I could see it shaving a half a second off track times. I have enjoyed the dynamic suspension, but I need to get proper weighted springs for my now 280 pound frame (I have lost 100 pounds from my heaviest and still losing, so fat guys can still be fast, as I was 376 pounds at my heaviest and was still riding advanced). Then dial in the suspension should help with the rest of the handling. The CMC rotors with XRAC pads will help with the braking quite a bit, giving me that initial bite that I love, and a smoother feel. Right now the brakes feel like wood, progressive feel, but no bite initially, and then seems to tapper once hard on the brakes.
Power. It's different. I have ridden a V-twin on more than one occasion, and put 13k miles on my SV650 in 8 months, so I understand the power band, but coming from an I4, where the power is 8k+, it's different when you have a bike that applies the power closer to the 4-5k zone and pulls equally from there. I am used to a tame bike down low, and then a rocket ship from 9k-14k, but I can say I can feel the torque difference. My R1 dyno'd at 164-167 HP, and I don't remember the torque, but I know it was higher than all the other R1s at the few dyno nights I attended, and equaled many of the other liter bikes that were there. I have put around 600 miles in the week I have owned the 1299 S, and I am now getting used to the power band a bit better, not bouncing off a rev limiter when passing someone, just have to keep in mind "short shift".
So my initial impression was more "meh" than I would have hoped, but I can see where the 1299 S "will" get to be a bike that is better than what I am accustomed on the R1, but I had hoped for a bit more out of the box than what I got. I have a full Akra system I am picking up tonight, TuneBoy is somewhere between there and here, PAIR block off plates are arriving today, and will be picking up a Sprint P08 air filter, and once the TuneBoy arrives, I will be getting it dyno tuned for the upgraded. The CMC rotors are going back to BrakeTech on Monday for new carriers, and once I sell a few of my goodies off the R1 (parting it and returning it to 'mostly' stock and selling it), I will be getting a set of BST wheels, and doing some other changes to the 1299 S. Things to get a better 'fit' for me.
But again, with all this said, it was enough of a bike on the test ride for me to buy it, where ALL other bikes I have ridden felt like a definite downgrade from the R1 (2016 R1M, 2016 BMW S1000RR, 2016 Kawi ZX-10), but with this, I could see the potential at least, plus the fact I have had a desire for a Ducati since before I started riding. It WILL be better than my R1, and will see ample track time, and street time, to me, if you don't know better, it's great out of the box, if you have ridden a bike setup, it's going to be like ANY other bike, and will need work. It was a toss up for the R1M and this, and well, Red won out.
So I have had seat time on various bikes over the years, and close to 45 track days on my old 04 GSXR 750. 
