1199 base Front end woes

Im from singapore and just had a track session at johor circuit in malaysia.

During the session I experienced some front end issues on my panigale base on johor circuit track.

Experiencing it mostly after braking and entering a corner.
The Front end shaking and is sapping away any confidence getting on the throttle early when exiting the corner.

Had my base supsension sorted out with a help of my fred before starting track sessions.

Funny thing is , I didnt experience the front end shake on previous track session using the same set up.

Below would be a link of my drift hd ghost onboard cam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItysLvVc1rw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I am not a professional racer but would very much like to Improve my riding.

Any contructive Inputs on identifying my problem would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any help

What kind of "shaking"? Oscillating? You said mid corner and imply at corner exits. Are you on the gas when it happens?

New tires? Worn ones?

If you're on relatively new tires and the shaking you're referring to is oscillation when you're in mid-corner/corner exit and feeding throttle, then the first thing to try is less rebound damping in the rear. But that's only a guess as you're not really giving much info to work with.

Hi charliem90,
Appreciate the Input, apologies for not providing more detailed information as im trying my best to articulate what im experiencing above.
Im on a fresh new set of tires and the static sag of the bike has been set prior to the session
.
I experience the shaking of the front end up and down making the front feel unstable after braking and entering the corner.
When exiting the corner, when im trying to get on the corner, the front doesnt feel planted , anf I get the feeling of the front being loose...

I have to go and dig up the adjustment on my base suspension , hopefully it will provide more details

Once again, much tks for the input.

Well then, this sounds like two distinct problems.

First, going in to the corner. The shaking up/down sounds like to little rebound damping. Try a few more clicks to dial in some more . I had similar on my base (nervous "pogo"-ing in front from too little rebound damping - especially under hard breaking - when I first got it. A little attention to dialing it in solved it.

The second instance you cited, when exiting a corner would seem like too much rebound damping on the rear. I would suspect rear suspension not recovering sufficiently from compression when you roll on the throttle and the weight shifts towards the rear and stays there (and leaving the front light and loose).

Suspension setup isn't magic. It just takes giving a little attention to what the bike is trying to tell you. AND (most importantly) a willingness to not be afraid to twist some dials while paying close attention to the difference it makes.

If, after some experimentation, you can't seem to make any difference. Then (by all means) take it to a suspension specialist and have them set it up for you. But know that if you do, and then next time you're on the road, or on a track, and it starts feeling weird, you're still not going to have the base knowledge to know what to adjust.

Don't be afraid to twist dials. It's what they're for. Just pay attention to what you're doing, do it gradually and note how the 1199 responds. Careful attention/experimentation with it will pay big dividends.

Let us know how it goes.

sounds like your having rebound problems like the other have mentioned. Keep making incremental changes and go back out and see how it feels.

STOP riding and check the frame bolts under the tank - ASAP

I had some issues like you, and found that the two front nuts was loose....

do you guys rebt that track just for yourselves?

do what bowhunter says ! happened to me as well ... did a 285 at mugello with the engine hanging loose...

can you indicate the time of the vid where it happens?

Having the same issue trying rebound in the front end no change at all,trying compression next no change,trying mirror changes on rear no change. Bike is in the shop right now,could be weeks before I here anything.Also having the 24k service done.The bike was solid as a rock till around 20.000ks. also the oil leaks or getting fixed up.Will post up the finding after the bike is all done.

Stop,stop,stop!

Your forks are dead! A known issue with base model Marzocchis. If you keep on riding you'll crash! They lose all damping, be it compression or rebound.

Covered on warranty. I had the distinction of being the first case on record, went through 4 sets of forks before they fixed it.

Slight consolation, now that they're fixed they are worlds ahead of OEM Ohlins on the S, Tri or R.

fireman1251 said:

Stop,stop,stop!

Your forks are dead! A known issue with base model Marzocchis. If you keep on riding you'll crash! They lose all damping, be it compression or rebound.

Covered on warranty. I had the distinction of being the first case on record, went through 4 sets of forks before they fixed it.

Slight consolation, now that they're fixed they are worlds ahead of OEM Ohlins on the S, Tri or R.

Click to expand...

And how did you find this out?.what year bike? Curious if th r problem has been addressed.

The constant pogo up n down feel regardless of the damping level. You will easily know. I'm on my second set of Marzocchis and these are supposed to be the newer version which was to address the issue but these are now blown as well. I gave up on the Marzocchis and waiting on my Ohlins forks to arrive. Definitely don't wanna deal with suspension .... which can be very dangerous. Do it right n forget about it. Marzocchis didn't and probably wouldn't give me that piece of mind.

triumphchris675 said:

And how did you find this out?.what year bike? Curious if th r problem has been addressed.

Click to expand...

First time was at a track day and I found out when my butt hit the pavement.

The other times I found out before I fell, twice it was very sudden, the last time they faded gradually.

The last set has a different part number and after 5k km which include 7 trackdays they are still fine.

Mine is a first batch 2012. All 2012 and early 2013 base models are affected.

fireman1251 said:

Stop,stop,stop!

Your forks are dead! A known issue with base model Marzocchis. If you keep on riding you'll crash! They lose all damping, be it compression or rebound.

Covered on warranty. I had the distinction of being the first case on record, went through 4 sets of forks before they fixed it.

Slight consolation, now that they're fixed they are worlds ahead of OEM Ohlins on the S, Tri or R.

Click to expand...

I remember when this happened to fireman1251. A very simple test the OP can do is to back out of the rebound damping completely on the forks. Bounce a few times on the forks to get a feel for the rate of rebound. Then screw in the rebound damping adjustment to maximum. Bounce again on the forks. If you don't notice a significant (i.e. huge) difference in the rate of rebound, your fork cartridges are bad.

If you don't want the potential hassle of multiple OEM fork cartridge replacements, and full-fork replacements are too expensive, you can also upgrade the fork cartridges themselves. Ohlins makes them in multiple options, but I went with the Bitubo ECH-29 Nitrogen fork cartridges and a matching Bitubo XXF-61 rear shock (made in Italy, like the bike!). The fork cartridges use a full-pressure gas system for very consistent performance, and have some very good features. They are about $800 less than the Ohlins gas cartridge setup, which actually costs more than the complete set of Ohlins TTX forks.

BellissiMoto - Bitubo Front Suspension






ECH 29 Nitrogen Charged SBK RACING Fork Cartridges
TECHNICAL FEATURES
"¢ Hydraulic piston with FPS® system (Patent Pending) Ø27mm, in Ergal material
"¢ Pumping rods with Ø10mm with surface coating against friction.
"¢ Mechanical end-stroke with polyurethane bump stop.
"¢ CrSi steel springs, undergo a patented stabilizing procedure.
"¢ Upper cap of the fork with integrated hydraulic spring preload (Patent Pending)
"¢ Independent damping adjustment in compression and rebound
"¢ Coaxial compensation chamber (Patent Pending)
"¢ Ergal cartridge body with internal surface coating against friction
"¢ Separated Hydraulic/sliding lubrication
Full Pressure System: represents the highest efficiency and practicality of this patented system.
This innovative damping system is created for immediate fork oscillation control, thus avoiding
any cavitations of the internal fluid. This system is low pressure gas pressurized. The cartridges
are asymmetric: where one controls the compression, the other one controls the rebound. With
two alternate chambers at the two ends, it is possible to reach a very high damping coefficient
even at very low speed.

Easy Changer: this is a quick change system: fast replacement of the spring, already available in
the previous YCE cartridge version, with a free key and a new exclusive cartridge dismantling
system, which does not require the fork removal. This system makes the set-up bike modification
easier by racing technicians.

Light Components: this product is manufactured with a high percentage of special light alloys,
thus decreasing the weight of the previous YCE cartridge considerably.

fireman1251 said:

now that they're fixed they are worlds ahead of OEM Ohlins on the S, Tri or R.

Click to expand...

What makes you say this?

My Ohlins work pretty good.

kope999R said:

do you guys rebt that track just for yourselves?

do what bowhunter says ! happened to me as well ... did a 285 at mugello with the engine hanging loose...

can you indicate the time of the vid where it happens?

Click to expand...

Hi kope,

The track is usually empty on a weekday, we traveled 50km from singapore to pasir gudang in Malaysia johor for a 1 hr session in the morning.
Being the noobs we are , the empty track allows us to practice without making us look bad

The instances of the pogoing front end can be seen after heavy braking, in turn 1 , turn 2 , turn 4, turn 5 , turn 6 .

Its not alot of shaking , but it can be seen , the shaking of the front . Something which doesnt happens during my previous 3 session there.

I really hope its just a simple issue as insufficient rebound damping and not the dead front end or loose engine bolts .

My dealer in singapore would not be too happy to change a set of forks for me nor tear down my bike to check the engine bolts.

I will be trying out the method of full/ no rebound damping on the front to see if mine is already dead .

Will post the results back later on today .

Once again tks for the inputs everyone.

It is much appreciated.

Hi all,

I am glad to report that the worst case of dead forks didnt happen on me .

Tried full compression and no compression setting and the difference was immediate.
But couldnt say much for rebound as I was just bouncing it using my arms while applying brakes.

I also found the damping settings I used for that session

Front
Rebound 3 clicks from full damping( total 21 clicks)
Compression 15 clicks from full damping( total 31 clicks)

Rear
Rebound 10 clicks from full damping (total 20 clicks)
Compression 6 clicks from full damping ( total 26 clicks)

EBC is off
Shock linkage set for single rider

Adjustmemt is done using the below :

Front rebound +2 clicks
Now 20 clicks
(1 click before max rebound)

Front compression -3 click
Now 12 clicks
(19 clicks from full damping)

Rear rebound - 2 clicks
( 12 clicks from full damping)

Rear compression +2 clicks
( 4 clicks from full damping)

My interpretation on the above adjustments is the front end would upon braking not jump back negating the shaking effect.
Rear end would upon throttle not squat too much and recover the rear movement faster thereby shifting weight back to the front.

Please correct me if the above is incorrect .

As always , postive Inputs is greatly appreciated

fireman1251 said:

Stop,stop,stop!

Your forks are dead! A known issue with base model Marzocchis. If you keep on riding you'll crash! They lose all damping, be it compression or rebound.

Covered on warranty. I had the distinction of being the first case on record, went through 4 sets of forks before they fixed it.

Slight consolation, now that they're fixed they are worlds ahead of OEM Ohlins on the S, Tri or R.

Click to expand...

friend of mine had same stuff happen...