1299: How do you operate the blipper correctly?

I rode the new BMW s1000rr the other day and noticed that the downshifter autoblipper was cool, but the lever action felt very strange and vague. It was like stepping in sand.

Can any body who has actually ridden a 1299 speak about the actual lever feel?

Stw said:

Quickshifter will work as you describe...no need for a blip...Cars dont blip....

Click to expand...

Even my Peugeot 1007 had auto blips when I downshifted before Smart Racing / Vision West stuffed her up. Now she puts 210 kw on the wheels and 380 nm torque, but now has a manual gearbox.

Stw said:

Quickshifter will work as you describe...no need for a blip...Cars dont blip....

Click to expand...

I know this is beside the point but my car blips on down shifts when using the paddles.

https://youtu.be/y26K3QgsFvk

How the new 1299S AUTO-BLIP WORKS. Take a look at this video. Pay particular attention to his right hand and amount of twist During up shift and down shift. Too bad the old guys with the clip board comes into view half way into the Video.

ManofManyGTs said:

I rode the new BMW s1000rr the other day and noticed that the downshifter autoblipper was cool, but the lever action felt very strange and vague. It was like stepping in sand.

Can any body who has actually ridden a 1299 speak about the actual lever feel?

Click to expand...

It is very much the same. You have to be very positive on the down shift, like really push so you can feel yourself physically pulling and disengaging the gears.

Again, it does feel vague as you've said. It will take some getting used to and the throttle has to be completely shut off too.

My understanding of the 'AutoBlipper' is the revs are too low when changing down gear. So as not to lock the rear wheel or indeed break the gearbox (eventually). The Autoblipper engages to increase the revs to assist when changing down a gear or 2. Think of it as 'Double De-clutching' whereby you touch the throttle to increase the revs with a manual gearbox. This is the 'old fashioned' method of an Auto Blipper. In my opinion at least.

Notice in the video, (https://youtu.be/y26K3QgsFvk) how the Dyno guy opens the throttle to do upshifts and closes the throttle to downshift. Upon downshifts the AutoBlipper is engaged. On the SL I tend to use the clutch on Downshifts and from 1st into 2nd gear. From 2nd unto 6th I allow the DQS to do its job. Having used a paddle shift system in cars for many years its natural to do things in a similar way and my other bikes don't have DQS. Thereby rolling off and on to change up the gearbox.

bradp51 said:

Are you sure you are buying the right bike ?

Click to expand...

Kinda what I was thinking.

To the OP, there is no valid reason to be downshifting with the throttle open. Even in the aforementioned scenario of wanting to drop a gear to pass cars (which shouldn't be necessary on a huge V-Twin), you would/could/should roll out of the gas and downshift. The only difference is that on the 1299 you won't have to use the clutch.

Mutt1979 said:

It is very much the same. You have to be very positive on the down shift, like really push so you can feel yourself physically pulling and disengaging the gears.

Again, it does feel vague as you've said. It will take some getting used to and the throttle has to be completely shut off too.

Click to expand...

It doesn't feel vague on 1299 it feels perfect , you feel shifting of the gears as same as you go up in gears, QS up shifting or down shifting is very nice and presize with no delays unlike S1000rr it takes time like few seconds , I've herd with 2015 s1000rr on down shift it almost feel like you pressing on a button ( not a good feel) what also I notice I hope it's not a problem down the road using QS going up in gears from 5th to 6th gear bike missed the gear and hit the limiter it happen twice to me within few first miles on the bike, I am hoping it's just a break in period glitch

Chaotic said:

Kinda what I was thinking.

To the OP, there is no valid reason to be downshifting with the throttle open. Even in the aforementioned scenario of wanting to drop a gear to pass cars (which shouldn't be necessary on a huge V-Twin), you would/could/should roll out of the gas and downshift. The only difference is that on the 1299 you won't have to use the clutch.

Click to expand...

I disagree. The question of whether it is truly necessary to downshift in that scenario really isn't relevant, just as trying to determine whether it would actually be necessary for any sports car to do the same when overtaking another vehicle on the highway isn't relevant. Most of what these bikes are capable of isn't really necessary for operating on public roads to begin with, but that certainly doesn't deter manufacturers or motor enthusiasts from continuously striving to enhance performance.

I agree that for a system without downshifting quick shift functionality, a rider would/could/should roll off the throttle in this scenario; however, I believe a quick shift downshift system should allow for partial and full throttle downshifts, much like the functionality that is currently available on many modern vehicles. I am curious as to whether the aftermarket system Jarel is currently working on utilizes a throttle position sensor.

Duck41 said:

I disagree. The question of whether it is truly necessary to downshift in that scenario really isn't relevant, just as trying to determine whether it would actually be necessary for any sports car to do the same when overtaking another vehicle on the highway isn't relevant. Most of what these bikes are capable of isn't really necessary for operating on public roads to begin with, but that certainly doesn't deter manufacturers or motor enthusiasts from continuously striving to enhance performance.

I agree that for a system without downshifting quick shift functionality, a rider would/could/should roll off the throttle in this scenario; however, I believe a quick shift downshift system should allow for partial and full throttle downshifts, much like the functionality that is currently available on many modern vehicles. I am curious as to whether the aftermarket system Jarel is currently working on utilizes a throttle position sensor.

Click to expand...

It is apparent they designed the bike with racetrack performance in mind, as it is obviously way overkill for anything anyone would do on the street. And as I am sure you are aware, on the track you are downshifting as you are braking, and you definitely do NOT want the throttle open in that scenario. That is a quick way to lose the front (almost happened to me racing the R1 at Road Atlanta 5-6 years ago).

With the design/intended purpose of the bike, and with the way the electronics are intended to maximize performance, I see absolutely no reason for them to allow downshifts with the throttle open.

On the street, that stuff really doesn't matter. There are no trophies awarded, nobody is tracking the time it takes to get to the store and back. Just ride it. If you need to downshift, close the throttle and do it. Or if you want to keep the throttle cracked for some reason, pull in the clutch.

NotR1GSXZXR said:

It doesn't feel vague on 1299 it feels perfect , you feel shifting of the gears as same as you go up in gears, QS up shifting or down shifting is very nice and presize with no delays unlike S1000rr it takes time like few seconds , I've herd with 2015 s1000rr on down shift it almost feel like you pressing on a button ( not a good feel) what also I notice I hope it's not a problem down the road using QS going up in gears from 5th to 6th gear bike missed the gear and hit the limiter it happen twice to me within few first miles on the bike, I am hoping it's just a break in period glitch

Click to expand...

Never said there was a delay, just have to be really firm with it.

Perhaps the R is different to the 1299............ maybe I need heavier boots!?!?

Mutt1979 said:

Never said there was a delay, just have to be really firm with it.

Perhaps the R is different to the 1299............ maybe I need heavier boots!?!?

Click to expand...

To me the DQS works OK. A positive and firm press of the lever with your foot is more than enough. Without the need for a leaded boot. I'm sure that on the SL I noticed the 'auto blipper' on downshifting periodically when out last Saturday.

Also, the dealer told me when I took my R, NOT to have ANY throttle on. Whether that was to avoid damge I don't know.

But obviously you are going to catch it at some point as I did and basically it wouldn't disengage to drop a gear under any load.......

Mutt1979 said:

basically it wouldn't disengage to drop a gear under any load.......

Click to expand...

...as it shouldn't. The same way a QS kills ignition briefly to allow the trans/motor to match speeds to avoid trying to shift gears with a load on the trans.

Don't want to be downshifting with a load on the trans either. Not only is there absolutely no reason to, but it could cause damage.

Chaotic said:

It is apparent they designed the bike with racetrack performance in mind, as it is obviously way overkill for anything anyone would do on the street. And as I am sure you are aware, on the track you are downshifting as you are braking, and you definitely do NOT want the throttle open in that scenario. That is a quick way to lose the front (almost happened to me racing the R1 at Road Atlanta 5-6 years ago).

With the design/intended purpose of the bike, and with the way the electronics are intended to maximize performance, I see absolutely no reason for them to allow downshifts with the throttle open.

On the street, that stuff really doesn't matter. There are no trophies awarded, nobody is tracking the time it takes to get to the store and back. Just ride it. If you need to downshift, close the throttle and do it. Or if you want to keep the throttle cracked for some reason, pull in the clutch.

Click to expand...

I could envision multiple racing scenarios where it would be advantageous to have the ability to perform a safe and efficient quick-shift downshift under acceleration. In an environment where progress and competitive advantage is measured in milliseconds, this functionality would definitely be an improvement over being required to completely close the throttle, pull in the clutch, and momentarily cut off thrust. Naturally this functionality wouldn't be useful in a braking scenario, but if the idea is to spend as much time in the meat of the bike's optimal powerband in an acceleration scenario, then any time spent working through the other portions of the bike's rpm range in that scenario means leaving untapped time-savings potential on the table.

Duck41 said:

I could envision multiple racing scenarios where it would be advantageous to have the ability to perform a safe and efficient quick-shift downshift under acceleration. In an environment where progress and competitive advantage is measured in milliseconds, this functionality would definitely be an improvement over being required to completely close the throttle, pull in the clutch, and momentarily cut off thrust. Naturally this functionality wouldn't be useful in a braking scenario, but if the idea is to spend as much time in the meat of the bike's optimal powerband in an acceleration scenario, then any time spent working through the other portions of the bike's rpm range in that scenario means leaving untapped time-savings potential on the table.

Click to expand...

I'd say that if you're in the stage of your racing career where you routinely miss downshifts and find yourself a gear or so too high on an exit you're probably measuring progress/advantage in seconds and not milliseconds.

Sounds like 98% street functionality to me.

Duck41 said:

I could envision multiple racing scenarios where it would be advantageous to have the ability to perform a safe and efficient quick-shift downshift under acceleration. In an environment where progress and competitive advantage is measured in milliseconds, this functionality would definitely be an improvement over being required to completely close the throttle, pull in the clutch, and momentarily cut off thrust. Naturally this functionality wouldn't be useful in a braking scenario, but if the idea is to spend as much time in the meat of the bike's optimal powerband in an acceleration scenario, then any time spent working through the other portions of the bike's rpm range in that scenario means leaving untapped time-savings potential on the table.

Click to expand...

With all due respect, I disagree.

Ive been racing since 2008 with many podiums and several wins to my credit (as a Novice and Expert) and have been a track Instructor for the US's largest TD organization since 2009...and not once have I found myself in a situation where I needed to downshift while on the throttle.

Exit a corner on the gas and accelerate till you reach redline (or where the bike makes max HP), upshift...repeat till the braking zone. Brake at the last possible minute and start downshifting, trail off the brakes to apex as you are finishing your downshifts (where applicable, depending on your desired exit speed/RPM). Get on the gas, accelerate till you reach redline again, repeat.

If ones track/racing strategy differs from that (and includes needing to downshift while on the gas), then it is likely they aren't going fast enough or riding consistent enough to benefit from the few milliseconds they might gain from being able to downshift without pulling in the clutch.

BTrain5489 said:

I'd say that if you're in the stage of your racing career where you routinely miss downshifts and find yourself a gear or so too high on an exit you're probably measuring progress/advantage in seconds and not milliseconds.

Sounds like 98% street functionality to me.

Click to expand...

Agreed.

While clutchless downshifting could be advantageous while racing, I see no need to be able to downshift with the throttle open on track. Like you said, that is only something that one might do to pass a bunch of cars or something of that nature on the street.

Chaotic said:

While clutchless downshifting could be advantageous while racing, I see no need to be able to downshift with the throttle open on track. Like you said, that is only something that one might do to pass a bunch of cars or something of that nature on the street.

Click to expand...

Also agreed

But if it's on the street then really its a bit pointless possibly dangerous even. If you're on a 200+ hp bike already accelerating and you feel you need to be accelerating harder/quicker, well f*ck me you don't want a clutchless downshift, you want a Saturn 5 f*cking rocket!!!

Mutt1979 said:

Also agreed

But if it's on the street then really its a bit pointless possibly dangerous even. If you're on a 200+ hp bike already accelerating and you feel you need to be accelerating harder/quicker, well f*ck me you don't want a clutchless downshift, you want a Saturn 5 f*cking rocket!!!

Click to expand...

No doubt.

Chaotic said:

With all due respect, I disagree.

Ive been racing since 2008 with many podiums and several wins to my credit (as a Novice and Expert) and have been a track Instructor for the US's largest TD organization since 2009...and not once have I found myself in a situation where I needed to downshift while on the throttle.

Exit a corner on the gas and accelerate till you reach redline (or where the bike makes max HP), upshift...repeat till the braking zone. Brake at the last possible minute and start downshifting, trail off the brakes to apex as you are finishing your downshifts (where applicable, depending on your desired exit speed/RPM). Get on the gas, accelerate till you reach redline again, repeat.

If ones track/racing strategy differs from that (and includes needing to downshift while on the gas), then it is likely they aren't going fast enough or riding consistent enough to benefit from the few milliseconds they might gain from being able to downshift without pulling in the clutch.

Click to expand...

This is interesting. While I do appreciate your opinion and insight, I find it difficult to believe that in all of your experience, you have never been in a situation where it would have been advantageous for you to get into your bike's optimum rpm range more rapidly. This would be similar to a racer preferring a bike that does not rev up faster due to him/her feeling there is no benefit to be had in accelerating more rapidly. The question here is not whether it is necessary, but whether it would ultimately offer a competitive advantage.

Perhaps the reason you believe you have never encountered a situation where you would need to accelerate while downshifting is because this technology has not been present, therefore rendering this option counterproductive since it would take more time to manually let off the throttle, pull in the clutch, downshift, and get back on the throttle than it would take to simply remain on the gas and wait to arrive at the optimum rpm range. For example, you wrote that upon exiting a corner, you remain on the gas and accelerate until you reach redline or where the bike makes max HP. Out of curiosity, how long would you estimate it typically takes for this process to play out? What if instead of being required to wait until you reached the optimum rpm range under this method, you could get there, say, a tenth of a second quicker? What kind of effect would this have on a racer's times over the length of a full race? If it would ultimately shave time, then it would in fact provide the racer a competitive advantage -meaning there would be use for it on a racetrack, and meaning there is potential being left on the table by not incorporating this functionality.