1299S suspension query

Does anyone know if the Ohlins EC suspension is purely the steppers adjusting compression and rebound on the move or whether the system features mechatronic adjustment as well?

mechatronic = ?

preload adjustment? i guess nope.

I was expecting/hoping semi active suspension would be active on the next generation of Panigale and did some reading a while back. The article below will explain it better than I can!

Mechatronics - the future - Ohlins

Taken from the article:-

To describe it in a really easy way the TTX EC works as a remote control that regulates the compression and rebound settings on your shock absorber or your front fork in fixed steps just as your regular mechanical valves. You can either have stepper motor or a CES valve connected to the TTX EC unit to do the job instead.
A CES system on the other hand is based on a solenoid technique with a magnetic field that controls a valve via a never ending flow of information from a CPU. The flow of the hydraulic fluid can be altered within milliseconds and the CES valve has a very wide setting area. The TTX EC on the other hand reacts much slower (0,5 seconds reaction time) and the area of use is within the traditional clicker settings. So the answer is that they will live on side by side.”

What I'm trying to find out is how quickly the suspension reacts and adapts. 0.5 of a second isn't exactly lightening and if it's just a clicker adjusting compression and rebound on the move I'll be disappointed! I'd have thought if it was a full Mechatronic system as described in the article the buzz words would have been stuck in the press release. Lack of them and lack of information about the system suggests to me it might not be as all singing and dancing as everyone thinks. Hope I'm wrong!

@SPJ - Don't know reaction time on the new system, but as Jarelj (of Ducati Omaha) noted in another thread it is NOT a solenoid-based system like BMW use. Valving changes will be, as stated by Ducati, event-based. Ala accel, decel, speed, lean angle, etc. A less active/reactive system than what you're looking for. But in fairness, a simpler, more predictable one than one that's always changing. It will simply increase damping when it thinks it needs to and ease off when it doesn't. Point being to get chassis pitch/dive under control without ruining ride quality/grip when you're upright and holding pace or heeled over in a corner. To me just another step past high and low-speed damping circuits, which used to do the same thing.

Thanks Steve, that makes sense and was pretty much what I was thinking.

So as I see it... the suspension more or less identical to what is currently fitted to the S in terms of hardware, the difference being it will adjust compression and rebound on the move. However more advanced systems are in the pipeline for the future (and have already been rolled out on some production bikes).

I'll still be getting a new S, I'm sure it'll be a step forward although how much remains to be seen.

It appears you can turn it off also and go back to the 1199s setup

Ohlins Smart EC semi-active suspension


The 1299 Panigale S features the world-exclusive Ohlins Smart EC semi-active suspension system. Consisting of an NIX-30 front fork, a TTX rear shock, and a steering damper, this system interfaces with the Bosch Inertial Platform and dynamically responds to changing road and riding conditions, allowing the best possible suspension performance and total motorcycle control. It operates in one of two modes: Fixed, which is non-active and allows the rider to set specific levels of front and rear compression and rebound, along with steering damper tension. These levels are maintained constant until the rider changes them again, exactly as a traditionally adjusted suspension system. Alternately, there is the Event Based mode, which is semi-active and allows the rider to select levels of suspension "behavior" ranging from Hard to Soft. In this mode, the system then dynamically adjusts compression, rebound, and damper tension in response to ride conditions, maintaining the overall "behavior" previously selected by the rider.

b9009b said:

It appears you can turn it off also and go back to the 1199s setup

Click to expand...

Interesting - thanks! What I'm curious about is how tuneable the semi-active functionality is and how you go about it if it is tuneable. For instance, how do you tell it how much to change front/rear damping under say, heavy braking and under what circumstances. Should be something like gear by gear engine mapping at different throttle openings and revs - way fiddly. Thus the F*#@ this, I'm getting a headache; OFF feature...

Steve B said:

Interesting - thanks! What I'm curious about is how tuneable the semi-active functionality is and how you go about it if it is tuneable. For instance, how do you tell it how much to change front/rear damping under say, heavy braking and under what circumstances. Should be something like gear by gear engine mapping at different throttle openings and revs - way fiddly. Thus the F*#@ this, I'm getting a headache; OFF feature...

Click to expand...

In the ec mode you dont control it, the comp does. When you switch the ec off its just like preloading the 1199s and 1199r ohlins susp.

Steve B said:

Interesting - thanks! What I'm curious about is how tuneable the semi-active functionality is and how you go about it if it is tuneable. For instance, how do you tell it how much to change front/rear damping under say, heavy braking and under what circumstances. Should be something like gear by gear engine mapping at different throttle openings and revs - way fiddly. Thus the F*#@ this, I'm getting a headache; OFF feature...

Click to expand...

'Alternately, there is the Event Based mode, which is semi-active and allows the rider to select levels of suspension "behavior" ranging from Hard to Soft.'

From the above my guess is that you won't be able to get into the semi active mode too deeply. Imagine you can preselected a hard to soft range and that's it! I'm wondering under what circumstances people will want to turn it off, I'd have thought it would be of benefit on the road and at the track.

What this version of electronic suspension is going to do is twist your damping clickers on the fly, based on communication between the Ducati and Ohlins ECUs. Kind of the same as the current bike, but it'll switch settings dynamically rather than you having to cycle through the modes manually.

Per Cycleworld's review of the aftermarket ZX10 Mechatronic shock, the system can continually move through about 6 clicks plus/minus, so something like that is what it'll be doing. My question was whether there will be any tuneability of the suspension ECU to set max/min parameters and thresholds for when it does what. For example, does it go all the way from say comfort settings to race at once when you nail it, hold that and then return when you ease up, or gradually move between them as conditions vary - does it live in the middle ranges at all or just go from A to B to C. As with SPJ, I doubt we would get much tuning opportunity there - too complex and too easy to get lost in settings.

Time will tell, but I expect you'll be able to set values for say, comfort, sport and race like you do now, and when you put it in semi-active mode it'll just switch between them based on speed/lean/accelerometer values.

Forgot to add: will be interesting to see if there is going to be an aftermarket front/rear kit from Ohlins for 2012-14 bikes; that might be tasty. The cost differential on the ZX10 shock wasn't huge compared to a plain TTX36, if memory serves.

Thanks for the heads up on the cycleworld review, makes for interesting reading and provides some insight on how the system is likely to work. Considering the price difference for the mechatronic shock I'm surprised Ducati didn't fit it as well. I think you're probably right, you'll have a baseline setup for each riding mode (wet/sport/race) and the system will +\- around 6 clicks on the damping depending on inputs received. Also looks like it's the Ohlins ECU that decides when it moves from comfort to sport mode but is influenced by which riding mode you are using.

SPJ said:

Considering the price difference for the mechatronic shock I'm surprised Ducati didn't fit it as well.

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That's basically what this is, for both fork and shock; an OEM application of Ohlins Mechatronic. The only real difference in Mechatronic from the standard Ohlins fork and shock units is the stepper motors (that were already there on the S & R) and the Ohlins ECU that controls them. Both were already extant, so it was just a matter of programming the communication with the Ducati ECU.

Sorry, I've been particularly slow on the uptake. Thanks for clarifying, I misread the initial Ohlins article & thought that mechatronic was a combination of both the TTX EC and CES where the solenoid charges the fluid to adjust damping and the stepper motor also adjusts compression & rebound.

Anyway roll on March and testing it! I'm hopeful that Ducati will have the ignition on at the Excel bike show mid February and we can have a look at the setup.

Interesting discussion!

A few questions though, would the valving on the new electronic system be for the street or the track?

... and also, how different is this electronic system to Yamaha's R1M electronic system? It mentions the use of gyroscopes etc to control the suspension setup on the fly. Any thoughts?

mali said:

Interesting discussion!

A few questions though, would the valving on the new electronic system be for the street or the track?

... and also, how different is this electronic system to Yamaha's R1M electronic system? It mentions the use of gyroscopes etc to control the suspension setup on the fly. Any thoughts?

Click to expand...

Who knows on the valving stack, but the expectation would be that it would be a compromise with enough range to accommodate both. Note the new R, being more track focused, doesn't have the electronic control. Maybe different valving too?

The Yamaha will be a similar setup, as it is another OEM Mechatronic application. No doubt it will carry their own valving solution, and of course they will have done their own programming between the bike's IMU and the Ohlins ECU to control how it adjusts the damping on the fly. No different from different companies using their own preferred valve stacks now for OEM Ohlins, just another layer.

The R doesn't have this set up due to the fact that most competition series this bike with be competing in do not allow such setups...

At least in the motorcycle arena,thought couple years back, bmw motorrad & bosch were already working on semi-active suspension with proportional solenoid valve control.The sensor box in the BMW video likely to be a inertia measurement unit (IMU).maybe magneto-rheological fluid damping system will be the next natural progress, since valve may face aging. Like on/off solenoids of fuel injectors...

Dynamic Damping Control on the new BMW HP4 - YouTube
BMW Motorrad Dynamic Damping Control DDC - YouTube
Smart Materials (4 of 5): Magneto Rheological (MR) Fluid - YouTube

Perhaps MV agusta with Tenneco& Marzocchi will be offering soon
Discover the new Marzocchi semi-active technology! - Marzocchi Suspension > Moto | Homepage

MV already have an Ohlins Mechatronic application like Ducati are doing on the F4RR, as well as a Tenneco/MZ one on the Turismo Veloce Lusso. As do BMW, who use Tenneco for their ESA units (which underwent a large recall back in the summer for breaking shock shafts). Most of these innovations are not piloted by the MC manufacturers, despite them trumpeting their groundbreaking new development, but rather by the suspension component companies and then sold to the MCM's as OEM applications. Not that that's a bad thing, it's just the normal path. Curious to note the laggard nature of Showa and Kayaba in this respect; perhaps their subsidiary nature and lack of penetration in the auto market (where all these technologies were developed and refined) is at play?

Would love to see an MR damper implementation on a bike; talk about tuneability!