Suspension rabbit hole

SuperDomestique said:

I think what he means is that the PV4 takes a bit of effort to initiate the lean. You have to work to get it leaned over. But once leaned it'll hold that angle. It'll also want to return to the vertical more readily. This is most likely due to the seating position and mass centralization of the exhaust under the bike.

My 675 was the opposite. You feel like you sit above the bike and having the weight under tail exhaust kind of exaggerated this effect. It feels like it would readily tip into the corner with just a little input. R6 was similar. GSXR if I remember correctly felt low cg (you feel like you're sitting "in" the bike).

Correct me if I'm wrong, @Bruce Wayne.

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Definitely helps return to vertical, makes big difference on change of direction, bike feels lighter, a bike falling on its side isn't usually a high COG but more steering angle and suspension settings, like if the front falls through the stroke mid corner, in my opinion the COG is the first step to get right and then build from there.

SuperDomestique said:

I think what he means is that the PV4 takes a bit of effort to initiate the lean. You have to work to get it leaned over. But once leaned it'll hold that angle. It'll also want to return to the vertical more readily. This is most likely due to the seating position and mass centralization of the exhaust under the bike.

My 675 was the opposite. You feel like you sit above the bike and having the weight under tail exhaust kind of exaggerated this effect. It feels like it would readily tip into the corner with just a little input. R6 was similar. GSXR if I remember correctly felt low cg (you feel like you're sitting "in" the bike).

Correct me if I'm wrong, @Bruce Wayne.

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My V4 and Gixxer feel the opposite…the Ducati I feel high off the ground on top of the bike and it tips in and changes direction way better than the Gixxer, whereas in the Gixxer I feel like I’m lower to the ground and in the bike, it doesn’t turn in or change direction nearly as well as the Ducati, but feels more stable and confidence inspiring mid-corner and everywhere else.

I love the agility and power of the V4 and I love the lower feeling ergos and stability of the Gixxer. The ideal bike would have both lol

Calderara di Reno said:

A guy at my local tracks has this tank, pretty cool ! he said it felt quite narrow and unsupportive braking, but said he could really lock on leaning off the bike . i questioned him about fuel slosh and he said it was baffelled inside ?

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Yeah it has a baffle where the fuel pump is, but it seems like it’s there just to keep fuel near the fuel pump, and will slosh elsewhere in the tank so pre-emptively I’ll add some fuel cell foam.

A little trick that a buddy showed me that helps ALOT with braking support is to put some stompgrip on the seat. Works really well to help keep weight off your arms and generally reduces physical effort during hard braking.

Bruce Wayne said:

Definitely helps return to vertical, makes big difference on change of direction, bike feels lighter, a bike falling on its side isn't usually a high COG but more steering angle and suspension settings, like if the front falls through the stroke mid corner, in my opinion the COG is the first step to get right and then build from there.

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Considering that the front fork only has 5 mm to lower, would that along w the same raising of the rear make a noticeable difference in cg on the V4?

CG is a personal thing. Some guys like the bike to fall in (which makes it harder to pick up) or to steer neutrally up and down. But no matter what it's a personal thing that is dependent on your personal mass distribution. You just have to fust with it. Sometimes a CG change can be pretty transformative.

Steven31371 said:

Yeah it has a baffle where the fuel pump is, but it seems like it’s there just to keep fuel near the fuel pump, and will slosh elsewhere in the tank so pre-emptively I’ll add some fuel cell foam.

A little trick that a buddy showed me that helps ALOT with braking support is to put some stompgrip on the seat. Works really well to help keep weight off your arms and generally reduces physical effort during hard braking.

View attachment 52348

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First time I’ve seen that .. good tip

Dark said:

First time I’ve seen that .. good tip

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Right on…pro-tip: After you put the stompgrip on the seat heat it with a blow dryer and press it into the seat then let it cool so the adhesive bonds to the seat better, stays firm then.

You'd could use some adhesive promoter too.

Steven31371 said:

Yeah it has a baffle where the fuel pump is, but it seems like it’s there just to keep fuel near the fuel pump, and will slosh elsewhere in the tank so pre-emptively I’ll add some fuel cell foam.

A little trick that a buddy showed me that helps ALOT with braking support is to put some stompgrip on the seat. Works really well to help keep weight off your arms and generally reduces physical effort during hard braking.

View attachment 52348

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Did this on my 1299 as the seat was slippery

Back on subject, I did some accurate measuring to get my bike back to stock geometry regardless of all the mods. rear height = stock. Front is at 24.5 degrees rake, ( i had to drop the forks through the clamps a surprisingly amount to get there. I have +5mm more trail than stock because of my 28mm offset triples. I did a ride day on a local track that has lots of turns and undulations, generally lower speed . Most enjoyable riding for a couple of years, the bike did everything asked of it. Unfortuneatly I've wasted 2 years and nearly gave riding away through poor set up . Reinvigorated !

Reviving this thread as i've got some mods that i'd like to share and proven to be successful .

I installed the Spider adjustable swing arm pivot on my 2018. Set it at the same position as the 2022 model. Also installed a linear link to the rear shock. The new link was really noticeable, the rear travels further through the stroke as expected less the strong initial kick rebounding. Rear tire wear big improvement.

Phillip Island has had a resurface in January this year, the 3 day ride day meet i attended was the first event on the new surface a couple of weeks ahead of the WSBK round . A new Pirelli SC1 rear did a couple of sessions and destroyed both sides. I've ridden SC1's for ever. The local tire supply at the track put me on some Dunlop Mediums KR133 which are still good after a couple of ride days and two race meets. I'm still using SC1's on the front, (treaded when the temps are <15-18 degrees).
Wish I had switched to the stiffer carcass rear tire years ago, it also solves another problem i've had mainly at PI where the bike pumps and wallows exiting on the gas from corners like T12 Phillip Island at 180kph ish.

So i've just returned from one of the bigger race meetings out side of ASBK in love with my V4. (My 1299r highsided me in practice on wets, which forced me to use only the V4 for the Q and racing sessions). Wet Qualifying to P18 and placed in the dry 11th, 12th and 13th doing a couple of pb's from 30 odd national starters. Absolute pleasure riding the V4 all set up doing everything as it should. My last pb's at PI were done about 4 years ago, pre Rabbit Hole and nearly gave it away thinking as a 60yo thats what you do. 4 years later, keener than ever.

Hope this thread keeps a few out of the Rabbit Hole !!

When you say the spider adjustable swing arm pivot… what do you mean? Rearsets with the stiffer side mounting plates?

And

A 2018 what? As the base and s position on the crankcase for the SA mounting are lower than an R and the 22 on

2018 base.
Spider (Italian brand) make an adjustable rear set side plate that fit the "18 model and pair up with the eccentric R swing arm bolts. Give me a minute and ill see if i can google the site . I purchased via a friend in Italy as their factory is close to where i lived

Yes I have those..
So you have actually alter you SA angle with those it’s the same.
Search the forum I listed the bits you need to fit the R adjustable Pivot.. quite cheap to do

However as you have a 2018 model which the pivot mount in the crankcase is lower you’ll need to fit the adj pivot stuff put your side plates on and to achieve the 22 base position of minus 1, you’ll need to set the pivot at the plus 3

Mines 22 base

andyb said:

Mines 22 base

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With about three of the original parts remaining…

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit…
Experience is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad!

Yes i'm running +3 . I followed that post last year , thanks for the info.

That locating screw has jammed locked made itself permanent . I think the end of it without the thread has distorted and is seized in there. Never going to change the position, but was going to fit a gear shaft support , any way thats in the bin because the Spider is much more bulky than std and no room.

The quote is also

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit…
WISDOM is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad!

Not experience you dolt

Wisdom comes with Experience, one positive from getting old !