if you look up in the dictionary the definition of whingers and whiners, a picture of Casey Stoner will be found!
2014 Ducati 899 Panigale Review
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world championship not 1 race thanks for playing
fyi bayliss best finish in moto gp was 6th
capirossi best finish in moto gp with ducati 3rd
in moto gp neither rider has ever won a world championship.
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and yet still consistingly in front of bmw in wsbk well at least until last year anyway, and motogp, oh wait, no bmw isn't in motogp.......never mind......
ok i stired the pot so i guess i can take the attack but lets be clear to what i have said in the past and how this really goes.
i never said bmw was better than ducati or any other brand. what i said was you get more for your money with the bmw. if you look at my thread if i knew then what i know now. i never said bmw or whatever brand was better i said you get what you pay for. i put hp4 in there BECAUSE I KNEW it would command a response. the bmw is 5k less than the r and the s1000rr is 8k cheaper than the s and the hp4 base is 5k less than the s too.
so my exact quote is you dont get what you pay for with ducati.
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in all seriouness zvez here is what i wrote that day that started it all
Ahh the old hindsight is 20/20. I speak to a lot of 1199 owners on here and in person privately and I get the same reaction. The forum just masks excuses for Ducati cause people don't want to admit a 20k mistake but I'll be totally honest here and admit the 1199 was my biggest purchase mistake and the experience will keep me from ever purchasing a Ducati again. I have had old heat shield problems, new heat shield problems, a melting fairing, a melting rear hugger, bolts fly off, rear set swing arm problem ( although that is an aftermarket purchase), signal issue and paint problem. I have the bike since June 2012. Problem is in the first 2 years you can't get rid of the bike you lose too much.
The reaction to every person I ask is the same a wincing like pain reaction. What do you think of the bike. I get well and a face like you have stomach cramps saying its good but....
I am also a member of the s1000rr forum. I can tell you these complaints are not really posted. Neither are they on the r1 forum. I know it happens to all makes but nothing is like it is with the 1199. I think what could have been if Ducati actually thought things through. With the most amazing looking bike yet you have to spend 30k to get the kind of performance the base should have. Keep in mind you can get an hp4 for 20k which will stay with an r anytime and is the price of a base with a full system and it's a titanium full akra exhaust system far and a way better quality than termi.
This is what the 1199 should have been and the reviews it should get.
the highlighted text is what i said. i never ever said bmw was better than ducati in any way shape or form
Ahh the old hindsight is 20/20. I speak to a lot of 1199 owners on here and in person privately and I get the same reaction. The forum just masks excuses for Ducati cause people don't want to admit a 20k mistake but I'll be totally honest here and admit the 1199 was my biggest purchase mistake and the experience will keep me from ever purchasing a Ducati again. I have had old heat shield problems, new heat shield problems, a melting fairing, a melting rear hugger, bolts fly off, rear set swing arm problem ( although that is an aftermarket purchase), signal issue and paint problem. I have the bike since June 2012. Problem is in the first 2 years you can't get rid of the bike you lose too much.
The reaction to every person I ask is the same a wincing like pain reaction. What do you think of the bike. I get well and a face like you have stomach cramps saying its good but....
I am also a member of the s1000rr forum. I can tell you these complaints are not really posted. Neither are they on the r1 forum. I know it happens to all makes but nothing is like it is with the 1199. I think what could have been if Ducati actually thought things through. With the most amazing looking bike yet you have to spend 30k to get the kind of performance the base should have. Keep in mind you can get an hp4 for 20k which will stay with an r anytime and is the price of a base with a full system and it's a titanium full akra exhaust system far and a way better quality than termi.
This is what the 1199 should have been and the reviews it should get.
the highlighted text is what i said. i never ever said bmw was better than ducati in any way shape or form
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Of course it counted.
It's always more interesting when DUCATI is at the top
I have never, nor will I ever be interested in Moto GP. I'm not interested in formula 1 either. Although I find a lot of the technology and engineering solutions are truly remarkable, even though there's absolutely no possible use for a lot of it on street legal machines.
Take the stuff that they're using to inflate the tyres now days. For example, It's gone way beyond substituting compressed air with Nitrogen.
Mark, you've got to understand It is far removed from anything of relevance to me.
Super bikes are closer to what matters to me.
And Super Stock is the closest to what really matters to me.
Regardless of who is the jocky.
You see I come from a country which had, way back in the past.
A motor racing series, where they ran the same cars as you could actually go into the dealer, and order one on the first Monday in October after they won at Bathurst the day before.
Bathurst was "the great race" of the year at the Mount Panorama circuit.
It was real racing with real cars like the Falcon GTHO Phase III, and 327/350 Monaro's that you could buy at the dealer anytime you liked. No limited editions with exclusive/special numbers stamped on them and they only had to build 200 for homologation.
They were born in right hand drive at the factory, and the indicator stalk was on the right hand side of the steering column.
They were virtually the equivalent thing to the Porsche GT 3 that you can get today.
Success on the race track for these machines is of true significance.
I find that to be both interesting, and inspiring as a consumer.
When my machines in the garage, are the closest thing to what's out there on the race track that personally gives me a nice inner glow
IMO.
You get EXACTLY what you pay for with DUCATI.
"Only If you know" what you're buying into.
Mark, If you're the type that's impressed with the trinkets and a set of specifications on paper then so be it.
In that regard BMW will appear to be way in front as far as the bulk of consumers is concerned.
There's more to a DUCATI than most people will know about, or fully appreciate.
If you don't get it, then you don't get it about DUCATI
To you they're clearly just another machine that has it's worth measured in clinical terms against a dollar value. Like most things in this modern age.
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And yet my experience with 7 or 8 ducatis ridden lots of miles over nearly 20 years is vastly different from yours. None of my bikes had anything close to the issues you had with your 1199 (even my 1199 had none of the issues you experienced). Hell I had worse luck with two modern triumphs that had leaking oil seals the first week of ownership.
I guess what I'm trying to say, and have said before, people that are unhappy with the bike they have tend to be more vocal in complaining about issues than people who are happy with the bike and just ride it. This is the largest 1199 forum out there and yet of the total production of bikes how many are actually active members here, a tiny sliver. That in no way diminishes the misfortunes you had.
Certainly by now, everyone here knows that I'm by no means a ducati apologist, don't see the bikes thru rose colored glasses and don't see them as the perfect trouble free bike, they're not. But I will say, I can't think of any ducati I've owned that I would trade for another bike, bmw s1000rr (which I do love), gsxr or whatever. I like ducs, and guess I'm willing to make the trade off, as many do, for having one.
One thing ducati did tho in encouraging bringing in a lot of non-traditional ducati riders, they had higher expectations of what the bike would be/do.
Anyway, a wordy reply. And again Mark, in no way am I excusing ducati for your and others misfortunes, and I do value your perspective on things, plus you're getting an HP4 which I'd love to have!
I guess what I'm trying to say, and have said before, people that are unhappy with the bike they have tend to be more vocal in complaining about issues than people who are happy with the bike and just ride it. This is the largest 1199 forum out there and yet of the total production of bikes how many are actually active members here, a tiny sliver. That in no way diminishes the misfortunes you had.
Certainly by now, everyone here knows that I'm by no means a ducati apologist, don't see the bikes thru rose colored glasses and don't see them as the perfect trouble free bike, they're not. But I will say, I can't think of any ducati I've owned that I would trade for another bike, bmw s1000rr (which I do love), gsxr or whatever. I like ducs, and guess I'm willing to make the trade off, as many do, for having one.
One thing ducati did tho in encouraging bringing in a lot of non-traditional ducati riders, they had higher expectations of what the bike would be/do.
Anyway, a wordy reply. And again Mark, in no way am I excusing ducati for your and others misfortunes, and I do value your perspective on things, plus you're getting an HP4 which I'd love to have!
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very much tongue in cheek Brad! A friend in the racing community told me how far out of his way Casey Stoner went to help an american racing in one of the 125 or 250 series in europe, putting him up in his house, etc. Made me re-think my opinion of the guy. I've a lot of respect for Casey.
Yes I am seeing Stoner in a different light these days.
Not that I was ever critical of him anyway.
With that business of him being home schooled and other things regarding his personality. (that's not meant as a criticism)
It sort of makes sense that he'd come across as being different to most people, and open to misinterpretation of/about him.
He was destined to be different and think differently.
It would've been good to see him stick with DUCATI.
But that's motor racing
Mark, I think I understand you much better now
I just saw Gunny's post in the 899 forum about you being a numbers man type of person
So every thing's rendered down to something you can measure to help you relate in your own mind to value. Sort of mild Autistic traits perhaps? (absolutely not meant as a criticism)
That's why you don't get the true value of DUCATI's.
The soul/spirit thing won't ever register on your measurement criteria.
All you'll feel is financial pain and regret. I get it, I get it.
Especially after the crummy run you've had with yours.
That's why you won't dump the bike and cut your losses because of the fear of loosing money. Which would be the wise choice if you think it's so bad. IMO.
That's where we differ.
From the start I knew I was taking a risk with the machine before I bought it as an early adopter.
I also was under no illusion about resale values, and factored that into my purchasing decision when I got the 1199.
For me, there wasn't one practical common sense consideration regarding the purchase. Not one.
Virtually nothing man made these days has any resale value from purchasing new.
That's a commercial reality. To expect otherwise is pure folly.
You say that numbers don't lie, and people lie.
That's a telling statement.
I personally, have never lied to myself regarding the purchase of the 1199, so I'm all good with it.
If you were to ask me the question about my ownership experience, my response will be tinged with delight despite the early (minor problems).
Which were all addressed by Ducati without difficulty.
On the other hand I think you may have deceived yourself somewhat about the 1199 and didn't factor in the worst case scenario when you purchased yours.
You simply failed to assess the risks effectively because you didn't understand what you were getting into.
I put it to you.
That if you had an absolutely trouble free run with yours, would you be still regretting the purchase????
Would you still be saying that the BMW is better value for money????
Further you can't really compare BMW's with DUCATI's
They're totally different bikes.
And DUCATI's are far and away superior in every respect that really matters
Kind Regards
I just saw Gunny's post in the 899 forum about you being a numbers man type of person
So every thing's rendered down to something you can measure to help you relate in your own mind to value. Sort of mild Autistic traits perhaps? (absolutely not meant as a criticism)
That's why you don't get the true value of DUCATI's.
The soul/spirit thing won't ever register on your measurement criteria.
All you'll feel is financial pain and regret. I get it, I get it.
Especially after the crummy run you've had with yours.
That's why you won't dump the bike and cut your losses because of the fear of loosing money. Which would be the wise choice if you think it's so bad. IMO.
That's where we differ.
From the start I knew I was taking a risk with the machine before I bought it as an early adopter.
I also was under no illusion about resale values, and factored that into my purchasing decision when I got the 1199.
For me, there wasn't one practical common sense consideration regarding the purchase. Not one.
Virtually nothing man made these days has any resale value from purchasing new.
That's a commercial reality. To expect otherwise is pure folly.
You say that numbers don't lie, and people lie.
That's a telling statement.
I personally, have never lied to myself regarding the purchase of the 1199, so I'm all good with it.
If you were to ask me the question about my ownership experience, my response will be tinged with delight despite the early (minor problems).
Which were all addressed by Ducati without difficulty.
On the other hand I think you may have deceived yourself somewhat about the 1199 and didn't factor in the worst case scenario when you purchased yours.
You simply failed to assess the risks effectively because you didn't understand what you were getting into.
I put it to you.
That if you had an absolutely trouble free run with yours, would you be still regretting the purchase????
Would you still be saying that the BMW is better value for money????
Further you can't really compare BMW's with DUCATI's
They're totally different bikes.
And DUCATI's are far and away superior in every respect that really matters
Kind Regards
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I think we'll have to see how his experience goes with the beemer. I do wonder how he'd have reacted to the con rod recall where bmw recalled a huge load of 12 s1krrs for improperly torqued con rods. And BMW did the repair on the cheap, ie paying shops to tear down the motor to make the fix (I think it was around 9-10 hr job).
.
.
I put it to you.
That if you had an absolutely trouble free run with yours, would you be still regretting the purchase????
Would you still be saying that the BMW is better value for money????
Kind Regards
Yes I know.
That's a good point.
But we will never know now. Will we?
It's all hypotheticals
He has had a string if issues though
But some were from various causes.
Whilst I think I understand much better, the depth of his frustrations now.
He also has to take it on the chin and chalk it up to a powerful learning experience. It's life.
My concern is that potentially, he's taking away the worst out of the learning experience and not the best.
Sort of the glass is half empty verses only half full scenario.
But that may just be his personality type/world view
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If anyone doesn't know that Italian vehicles are sexy, Japanese vehicles are reliable and German vehicles are well engineered but expensive to own/repair, then where have they been in the last 30+ years?
No shocker that the 1199 has some issues. Get over it and enjoy the bike 'since you are stuck with it'.
No shocker that the 1199 has some issues. Get over it and enjoy the bike 'since you are stuck with it'.
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Mark, you have commitment issues. How can you beat up the Ducati so badly but then say that you never said the BMW is better? If the Ducati is the worst purchase decision you ever made, and you go on to say that it takes $30,000 to get a Ducati that will stay with a $20,000 BMW then you have de facto said that you think the BMW is a better bike. I'm sure you'll explain to me how I'm taking what you are saying out of context, but I'm not going to buy it. Just take a stand one way or another and stick with it.
As to the posts asking why the 899 weighs as much as it does, that is what you get when you use the same platform for both an 1199cc and it's sister 899cc bike. A platform that is light for a 1199 can easily be too heavy for a 899 - just like if Kawasaki took 20 lbs out of the weight of a ZX10r but then used the same platform for it's 636 (ZX6r).
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Ain't that the truth....
He's not really stuck with it.
He could actually sell it in a heartbeat.
If he was man enough
He just can't bear to part with it.
And we all know the real reason why
Come on Mark.
It's alright to admit it.
It's calling to you, and touching you deep in your soul in ways that you can't fathom, and are not willing to confront for fear of never feeling that way again about a motorcycle.
You won't admit it to yourself, that your smitten and bewitched by your 1199.
You want to love it.
You need to love it.
You're hanging in there for it to get better.
You want her to be, what you believe the BMW is.
But you know the BMW can never replace her, because she's safe, but boring and ugly. You want to have it all, but your teetering on the edge of reality.
But then she keeps treating you mean to keep you keen.
So you'll never give her up.
Come over to the dark side Mark.
There are plenty of us here to keep you company
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He's not really stuck with it.
He could actually sell it in a heartbeat.
If he was man enough
He just can't bear to part with it.
And we all know the real reason why
Come on Mark.
But you know the BMW can never replace her, because she's safe, but boring and ugly. You want to have it all, but your teetering on the edge of reality.
But then she keeps treating you mean to keep you keen.
So you'll never give her up.
Come over to the dark side Mark.
There are plenty of us here to keep you company
Lol, well said .Telling the truth !
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