330mm Front Brake Rotors for Panigale V2

bp_SFV4 said:

Just browsing OPP Racing's offerings the forged, billet and higher end billet (read: $290, $600 and $2,200) can be had in every size you'd want. The V4 uses the Brembo Stylema calipers. Google tells me the Stylema uses less fluid volume while being stiffer than the M50. Maybe that's why the typical advice is 17 master for the V4. Brembo has a rather confusing product segmentation and naming scheme for sure.

I don't like the spongy lever feel of the V4, but I'm sure it's not the primary thing that's slowing me down. Having more confidence from a better hand to braking force feel couldn't hurt though.

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Good research. I just looked at one website and didn't see the higher cost options available with 17mm. Understood.

That's a good theory, about the lower volume.

The OEM master? Is it the same one on the V2? I'm pretty sure it is. Yeah, it's horrible. I just wrote in a different post about it. I'm replacing it for sure. With anything!

bp_SFV4 said:

Just browsing OPP Racing's offerings the forged, billet and higher end billet (read: $290, $600 and $2,200) can be had in every size you'd want. The V4 uses the Brembo Stylema calipers. Google tells me the Stylema uses less fluid volume while being stiffer than the M50. Maybe that's why the typical advice is 17 master for the V4. Brembo has a rather confusing product segmentation and naming scheme for sure.

I don't like the spongy lever feel of the V4, but I'm sure it's not the primary thing that's slowing me down. Having more confidence from a better hand to braking force feel couldn't hurt though.

Click to expand...

I looked it up a bit more, and there's kind formula that is used to arrive at the appropriate braking component set up. You were actually on the right track with your assumption about the fluid volume. The engineering looks at just that: fluid volume, force of the piston, and a lot of other stuff I'm not smart enough to totally get. But for sure, some masters are more suited to other brake set ups than others.

And I also got some more feedback from a vendor, who checked with the Brembo rep, and they recommend a 19mm piston. So I'm sticking with the 19x18 MK2 for the V2.

JBJR said:

I looked it up a bit more, and there's kind formula that is used to arrive at the appropriate braking component set up. You were actually on the right track with your assumption about the fluid volume. The engineering looks at just that: fluid volume, force of the piston, and a lot of other stuff I'm not smart enough to totally get. But for sure, some masters are more suited to other brake set ups than others.

And I also got some more feedback from a vendor, who checked with the Brembo rep, and they recommend a 19mm piston. So I'm sticking with the 19x18 MK2 for the V2.

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In the end it's simply area of calipers vs the area of the master and the master pivot point. All the later brembo stuff concentrates on total system volume reduction. That why the feel of these is better than the M-50's.

I top out at 160 (indicated on dash) down the front straight of Thill and have no problems getting the bike stopped or fade on the OEM system with Z04 pads (had no problems with stock pads either). The mushy feeling on the stock system is when the bike is cold. Probably has something to do with the ABS system and all the lines and solenoids and pressurization. Once the bike is warm, that mushiness goes away at least in my case.

There’s an “interesting” lengthy decision tree for the front brake in the 23 V4R service manual. Seems like possibly activating the ABS helps with the mushiness

It doesn't look like that chart is anything specific to the V4 or V4R as it offers a path for front axial master cylinders too.

I think what most people feel as a soft lever which has been properly bleed is just a side effect of Ducati's design choice. The OEM master is 16 x 21, and I suppose the theory behind that is it allows you to better modulate braking force at the expense of lever feel. I'm curious to try the RCS 17, but it seems once you do down that road you need to replace quite a lot to get it to work. I think for my spring re-fresh I'm going to limit myself to replacing the OEM clutch slave with an Oberon unit and maybe look at the brakes next year.

baggerman said:

In the end it's simply area of calipers vs the area of the master and the master pivot point. All the later brembo stuff concentrates on total system volume reduction. That why the feel of these is better than the M-50's.

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I agree.

bp_SFV4 said:

It doesn't look like that chart is anything specific to the V4 or V4R as it offers a path for front axial master cylinders too.

I think what most people feel as a soft lever which has been properly bleed is just a side effect of Ducati's design choice. The OEM master is 16 x 21, and I suppose the theory behind that is it allows you to better modulate braking force at the expense of lever feel. I'm curious to try the RCS 17, but it seems once you do down that road you need to replace quite a lot to get it to work. I think for my spring re-fresh I'm going to limit myself to replacing the OEM clutch slave with an Oberon unit and maybe look at the brakes next year.

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Interesting. Clutch feels good to be so far. But we'll see how the track test goes.

bp_SFV4 said:

I think what most people feel as a soft lever which has been properly bleed is just a side effect of Ducati's design choice. The OEM master is 16 x 21, and I suppose the theory behind that is it allows you to better modulate braking force at the expense of lever feel. I'm curious to try the RCS 17, but it seems once you do down that road you need to replace quite a lot to get it to work. I think for my spring re-fresh I'm going to limit myself to replacing the OEM clutch slave with an Oberon unit and maybe look at the brakes next year.

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We agree how can that be possible? Nothing is more personal than brake lever feel. I've generally been OK with Ducati brake masters but when I'm travelling I tie them off every night. The clutch masters typically when they're different I'll buy the R one as they usually speed plate separation. I would never use a bigger slave on the clutch side BTW for the same reason. You may want to try a small pivot change first. If you go thru other manufacturers OEM brembo masters one might exist I haven't looked. A mm or so pivot change will firm the lever right up and you don't have to mess with anything else if the master is the same diameter. Look thru the earlier ducati superbike ones too may be something.

bp_SFV4 said:

¿Para qué pinzas? La lógica convencional últimamente es que el RCS 17 es la mejor opción para los conductores que buscan actualizar su versión OEM. Estoy de acuerdo en que el Corsa Corta es un truco.

Muchos han dicho que el 19 daría como resultado una sensación de palanca demasiado rígida para el V4.

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RCS17 are for bremo stylema or M50 with 30 mm piston. For the M4 stock panigale V2 the rcs19 is the god ones

I finally had a chance to test my V2 race bike, and the brake set up is very good. Brembo 19x18 GP MK2 master, OEM calipers, OEM rotors and SBS dual carbon pads. I am getting a little bit of fade, and having to adjust my lever a bit, but I think that's normal a certain pace and level of pushing the bike, and was nothing that a few clicks of remote lever adjustment didn't fix. I may try some aftermarket rotors later, but for now, the set up is solid. Great feel, good stopping power.