BST Wheels beware!!!

I have no issue with vendors marketing products as long as everyone can see they're vendors. Masquerading as purely a rider is another issue....but I haven't seen any of that behavior here, either with Randall (or his proxy, Gunny Fitz), Rich, or anyone else.

As to BST wheels, they're the cat's ass. Anyone who hasn't ridden on them has no business whining about them. Anyone who's not an engineer is probably not qualified to discuss the mechanical merits of them (says the mechanical P.E.).

I'd ten times rather ride on carbon than magnesium on the street! Magnesium has a rather insidious characteristic to consider. Aluminum and steel form surface oxide layers to protect the underlying metal. In steel we call this oxide layer rust. In aluminum it appears as a dull white sheen. Magnesium doesn't form an oxide layer like those others. Rather, when exposed to oxygen, magnesium oxidizes (i.e. corrodes) through, weakening the material throughout the oxidized zone! Wheels are typically painted for appearance, but with magnesium wheels the paint keeps the metal from meeting oxygen. When the paint is scratched oxidation begins at the scratch and can propagate through a wide local area....and if left long enough through the entire wheel. It's VERY easy to scratch a wheel while mounting or dismounting a tire, and if the scratch or gouge is in the bead area, or in the drop center of the wheel (inside the tire) it might not be detected for a very long time, leading to wheel failure. I've raced on magnesium, but I'll be damned if I'll ever buy it for a street bike.

BST, on the other hand, is probably number three on my current "to buy" list...right behind LUX block off signals and Kyle bar ends/CRG mirrors.

Cloner said:

I have no issue with vendors marketing products as long as everyone can see they're vendors. Masquerading as purely a rider is another issue....but I haven't seen any of that behavior here, either with Randall (or his proxy, Gunny Fitz), Rich, or anyone else.

As to BST wheels, they're the cat's ass. Anyone who hasn't ridden on them has no business whining about them. Anyone who's not an engineer is probably not qualified to discuss the mechanical merits of them (says the mechanical P.E.).

I'd ten times rather ride on carbon than magnesium on the street! Magnesium has a rather insidious characteristic to consider. Aluminum and steel form surface oxide layers to protect the underlying metal. In steel we call this oxide layer rust. In aluminum it appears as a dull white sheen. Magnesium doesn't form an oxide layer like those others. Rather, when exposed to oxygen, magnesium oxidizes (i.e. corrodes) through, weakening the material throughout the oxidized zone! Wheels are typically painted for appearance, but with magnesium wheels the paint keeps the metal from meeting oxygen. When the paint is scratched oxidation begins at the scratch and can propagate through a wide local area....and if left long enough through the entire wheel. It's VERY easy to scratch a wheel while mounting or dismounting a tire, and if the scratch or gouge is in the bead area, or in the drop center of the wheel (inside the tire) it might not be detected for a very long time, leading to wheel failure. I've raced on magnesium, but I'll be damned if I'll ever buy it for a street bike.

BST, on the other hand, is probably number three on my current "to buy" list...right behind LUX block off signals and Kyle bar ends/CRG mirrors.

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So I take it you have ridden on Mag wheels?

Trauma said:

So I take it you have ridden on Mag wheels?

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Yes Sir. That is a true statement.

I used them on race bikes about a million years ago (Marvic) before carbon was available. I inspected them at every tire change and made sure to dress any paint nicks whenever I found one whether it got through the primer layer or not. That bike had tire changes every weekend it was used, unlike street bikes that might sit for months between changes and have plenty of time to degrade from exposure.

Just not a big fan of that kind of liability on the street....and I change my own buns using a NoMar changer that would have a really hard time scuffing one.

As I have said in the past, pointing out faults with Mags dosen't make BST's any safer. They still have a somewhat founded perception of shattering on servere impact, plus not showing their true internal damage without a trip to Africa for an X-Ray. I have vever heard of, or been able to find any evidence of corrosion of a Marchesini wheel, which is actually an alloy and not 100% magnesium. Any corrosion to a mag would have to be quite severe to damage the integity of the wheel, and certainly would be visible besides.

Again, there will always be those that will refuse to use CF because of their reputation, and faulting mags (just one of multiple options) will not squelch that. The $1500 price difference and their appearance are the main drawbacks I have with them.

I've hit potholes bigger than my ex-girlfriends vagina with my Marchesnini's going 50-80 and they're still in perfect shape. Balance spot on with 1 or two weights.... I'll spend $4k ish elsewhere on my bike...

Cloner said:

I have no issue with vendors marketing products as long as everyone can see they're vendors. Masquerading as purely a rider is another issue....but I haven't seen any of that behavior here, either with Randall (or his proxy, Gunny Fitz), Rich, or anyone else.

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Then you need to see the original post. It was 100% commercial and added zero content in terms of the thread discussion about. It was "hey, here is an alternative to BST. I carry Rotobox. Come talk to me and get a good deal and some freebies". If that wasn't commercial, I'm not sure what is/was.

anthem said:

Then you need to see the original post. It was 100% commercial and added zero content in terms of the thread discussion about. It was "hey, here is an alternative to BST. I carry Rotobox. Come talk to me and get a good deal and some freebies". If that wasn't commercial, I'm not sure what is/was.

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Yes, he did that in 2 places, and after our suggestion, he removed them.

White13Pani said:

I've hit potholes bigger than my ex-girlfriends vagina with my Marchesnini's going 50-80 and they're still in perfect shape. Balance spot on with 1 or two weights.... I'll spend $4k ish elsewhere on my bike...

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Is that why shes an Ex???

Trauma said:

....which is actually an alloy and not 100% magnesium. Any corrosion to a mag would have to be quite severe to damage the integity of the wheel, and certainly would be visible besides.......

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Ride what you want, Trauma. It's no skin off my nose if you visit the center that bears your namesake.

Virtually ALL metals are alloys to one degree or another. An alloy is simply a metal mixture, sometimes based on the named element. Titanium, aluminum, iron, and copper are all examples. Sometimes the name is different.....steel is an iron alloy...stainless steels are often nickel based like 304, but sometimes are based in iron like 440C. Raw materials are rarely used in structural elements. I'd say NEVER in lieu of rarely, but I don't know everything quite yet.

Titanium is generally an alloy of titanium, aluminum, and vanadium. Steel is typically an alloy of iron, carbon, vanadium, nickel, chromium, molybdenum, and others. Magnesium is typically alloyed with aluminum, zinc, copper, and others. Aluminum is typically alloyed with magnesium, zinc, manganese, and silicon. Even the substance we commonly call iron is an iron alloy.

Pointing out the word alloy is a semantic game that makes no sense, as raw magnesium is NEVER used in castings for wheels or other structural elements....at least not for the last fifty years. The raw material suffers VERY greatly from the aforementioned corrosion and several other problems.

You are incorrect about seeing the damage due to corrosion of magnesium wheels, too. It occurs beneath the paint and often causes no bubbling or cracking of that paint. The metal corrodes, then fails. I have seen mistreated wheels fail in this mode. I don't want to be aboard when it happens.

In all seriousness, if properly maintained I'm sure magnesium wheels are safe. I simply don't want to take on that risk when I feel like I can assume less risk with lighter wheels in carbon. Many metals fail in the same mode.....little or no deformation, then snap.....but we don't eschew their use in structural elements. Many higher strength aluminum alloys act in this manner, as does cast iron. Often the layman cannot detect structural damage (generally in the form of permanent deformation or change of cross section) to metal elements even when it's obvious to experts.

Wow....anyway, ride what you want....but most of the arguments presented here in opposition to carbon wheels are inane from this engineer's perspective.

As to vendors advertising....would you expect less? Ever heard the story of the frog and the scorpion? As long as I get relevant information from the ads I'm cool with it. I've learned of several products I'd never have seen otherwise via just such postings on this and other forums.

In this matter, as in your choice of wheels, you are welcome to your own opinions and biases, and I appreciate you (and others) taking the time to post them for consideration here. Opinions and experiences are what make internet forums so functional and useful.

My opinions are probably worth exactly what you paid for them.

Cloner said:

Ride what you want, Trauma.

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If you really meant that, you would have stopped there. You can write a book, the more verbose you are, doesn't make CF any safer, or make magnesium wheels unsafe. You think Mags are dangerous, fine, don't use them. You're wrong, but entitled to your opinion. In a million years would I trust my life to a bump in a road on CF, my opinion. Please don't write an even longer message. You will never convince me or others to change our minds.

PS I don't need a metalurgy lesson, I have a masters degree that covered the atomic make up of metals, and have 2 metal companies as clients. I am sure I could teach you a thing or two, but this is a motorcycle forum, remember?

great stuff

Trauma said:

Then PM me next time - you need an audience though....

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I'll simply point to the fact that I have posted less than 200 generally informative items to this forum, and the fact that you have posted over 3000 often inane items to this forum, then let the reader determine which of us craves an audience.

If I have something personal to say to you I'll PM you.

Sorry for the disturbance, fellow forum denizens. We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion of the pros and cons of carbon fiber wheels.

Cloner said:

I'll simply point to the fact that I have posted less than 200 generally informative items to this forum, and the fact that you have posted over 3000 often inane items to this forum, then let the reader determine which of us craves an audience.

If I have something personal to say to you I'll PM you.

Sorry for the disturbance, fellow forum denizens. We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion of the pros and cons of carbon fiber wheels.

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Anyrthing you say against me, is personal - I know you want the whole forum see your rants and personal attacks, but PM me if you want to call names - again, stick to the subject, please.

Stw said:

Is that why shes an Ex???

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Long story. Jail cells, job losses, etc later its what got me the job I got now and got me the Pani

Hope your Pani is doing better Stw, I recall reading some disappointing stuff you were experiencing.

Hmm, how does a CF wheel failure become a Mag wheel bash fest?
That said I'm gonna check my Mags right now. LOL.