BST Wheels beware!!!

ScrapperX · Apr 10, 2013

Trauma said:
Scrappy - I have to keep telling everybody knocking the mag/alum does not make the CFs look any better. And hello, what you just said is on the internet. So we shouldn't believe that either?
Most people (including me) don't like CF wheels because of the look. And BTW, CF is not "new" technology at all, so those compares are not very relavant - not to mention none them are something you are depending on at 150+ miles an hour. And as far as a plane wing, much happier my wings are aluminum rather than CF.
This is one of those topics/threeads that will not change people's opinions no matter how many post, or their cointent. Others?
Matte/Gloss
Red/White
R worth it
Base/S/Tri best bargain

Not trying to make a case but just asking people to educate themselves before making a decision based on facts. Whether its statics, physics/chemistry property facts. People don't have to believe my post because its the Internet, but it will give them a place/base to start researching before they make a decision. This thread has already second guess people who were wanting to put CF wheels on based on unfounded facts and In my opinion knocking the magnesium wheel does make a better case for CF. Because people who buy magnesium wheels should know the truth about magnesium and why manufacturer won't approve it for street use. Steering young guys into buying something that the manufacture won't even approve for street use and doing 150 MPH is just plane wrong! Won't you agree?

P.S. CF is newer technology than steel, aluminum or magnesium

Trauma · Apr 10, 2013

ScrapperX said:
Not trying to make a case but just asking people to educate themselves before making a decision based on facts. Whether its statics, physics/chemistry property facts. People don't have to believe my post because its the Internet, but it will give them a place/base to start researching before they make a decision. This thread has already second guess people who were wanting to put CF wheels on based on unfounded facts and In my opinion knocking the magnesium wheel does make a better case for CF. Because people who buy magnesium wheels should know the truth about magnesium and why manufacturer won't approve it for street use. Steering young guys into buying something that the manufacture won't even approve for street use and doing 150 MPH is just plane wrong!

No one is steering anyone one into anything. All I see on this thread are negatives against any wheel. I think if people are old enough to buy this bike, they are old enough to make up their mnds without people telling them what they should or shouldn't do.
In particlar, Marchesini Magnesiums aren't approved for street use just because they are designed for racing and they doidn't choose to certify them. I personally trust a forged wheel way over a cast or laminated - but that's me.

ScrapperX · Apr 10, 2013

Trauma said:
No one is steering anyone one into anything. All I see on this thread are negatives against any wheel. I think if people are old enough to buy this bike, they are old enough to make up their mnds without people telling them what they should or shouldn't do.
In particlar, Marchesini Magnesiums aren't approved for street use just because they are designed for racing and they doidn't choose to certify them. I personally trust a forged wheel way over a cast or laminated - but that's me.

This is why people get confused with statements like this "In particlar, Marchesini Magnesiums aren't approved for street use just because they are designed for racing and they doidn't choose to certify them"

It's not because they choose not to certify them. It's because for street use the Magnesium would have to be beefed up in order to meet DOT standards for street use and It will end up being much heavier thus eliminate the need for it for racing. I have these wheels for my track bike but would never use them on the street for several reasons.
1) the manufacturer warning said not for street use
2) they haven't been tested for street use
3) the road environment between track and street as we all know is different, and the everyday air environment, moisture trap between the tire and wheel all causes corrosion the mags are susceptible to.
4) If something happens to the wheels that causes you to crash while in the streets everyone and their mothers will be sueing you for not using DOT certified. You are pratically in the wrong from the start
5) if you get pulled over for speeding the police can impound your bike for not using DOT certified wheels for the street.
6) insurance company wont cover you in an accident.

Always use certified DOT wheels on the street. There is a reason for helmets/wheels/tires get certified. If your stupid enough not too follow it then that's the risk you take. Don't expect compensation when you crash and the amount of $ we paid for Ducati's we would want compensation.

Trauma · Apr 10, 2013

ScrapperX said:
This is why people get confused with statements like this "In particlar, Marchesini Magnesiums aren't approved for street use just because they are designed for racing and they doidn't choose to certify them"

It's not because they choose not to certify them. It's because for street use the Magnesium would have to be beefed up in order to meet DOT standards for street use and It will end up being much heavier thus eliminate the need for it for racing. I have these wheels for my track bike but would never use them on the street for several reasons.
1) the manufacturer warning said not for street use
2) they haven't been tested for street use
3) the road environment between track and street as we all know is different, and the everyday air environment, moisture trap between the tire and wheel all causes corrosion the mags are susceptible to.
4) If something happens to the wheels that causes you to crash while in the streets everyone and their mothers will be sueing you for not using DOT certified. You are pratically in the wrong from the start
5) if you get pulled over for speeding the police can impound your bike for not using DOT certified wheels for the street.
6) insurance company wont cover you in an accident.

Always use certified DOT wheels on the street. There is a reason for helmets/wheels/tires get certified. If your stupid enough not too follow it then that's the risk you take. Don't expect compensation when you crash and the amount of $ we paid for Ducati's we would want compensation.

And this all makes the CF safer/better how?

ScrapperX · Apr 10, 2013

Trauma said:
And this all makes the CF safer/better how?

Every CF wheel manufacturer that I know of test it to DOT standards. They can beef up the carbon fiber to be strong enough and to meet the testing requirements and still be light enough for racing.

Trauma · Apr 10, 2013

ScrapperX said:
Every CF wheel manufacturer that I know of test it to DOT standards. They can beef up the carbon fiber to be strong enough and to meet the testing requirements and still be light enough for racing.

I am not trying to pick this completely apart, just trying to be fair to all materials.
I don't believe your arguement is more valid than mine, as OZ Mags are DOT if I recall.
Why do you attack Mags to try to make CF look better? What about Aluminum forged/cast?
Of all the wheels available for our bikes I trust the Marchesini manuacturing process under me going 150+ more than all the others put together. I am not, and have not, said a negative word about the others, besides appearance.
You cannot convince me Mags are in any way dangerous, and I am not trying to convince you CF is. So no argument.

Edit: Marchesini mag wheels are approved for road use (2 versions, just like Oz), just not DOT. No cop or insurance company is going to bother looking that up, seriously. And I am self insured anyway

ScrapperX · Apr 10, 2013

Trauma said:
I am not trying to pick this completely apart, just trying to be fair to all materials.
I don't believe your arguement is more valid than mine, as OZ Mags are DOT if I recall.
Why do you attack Mags to try to make CF look better? What about Aluminum forged/cast?
Of all the wheels available for our bikes I trust the Marchesini manuacturing process under me going 150+ more than all the others put together. I am not, and have not, said a negative word about the others, besides appearance.
You cannot convince me Mags are in any way dangerous, and I am not trying to convince you CF is. So no argument.

Sorry if I seem coming off trying to attack mags, like I said I specifically use them for the track. They are all good material and they each has their place in the motorcycle world. For me and their manufactures, the Mags are for racing/track only. You are convinced that they are good enough for the street and you are a grown man and can make up your own mind I wont try and convince you. Even though we have never met you seem to be an intelligent person and sometimes playful but passonate person. I think you know what's best for you. I would like to say this I trust the mags going 186mph on the track but I wouldnt trust it for everyday use on the street ie, pot hole, weather condition salty roads, and then doing 150 mph. Why? because the they haven't been tested to do so and the manufacturer doesn't recommend it either.

The OZ mags Cattiva r is the magnesium and is used for racing only, the Piega is forged aluminum and is aftermarket.

Kevin1199 · Apr 10, 2013

Lets all agree do disagree, for some people carbon wheels are a must and for some they won't touch them with a 10' pole. Either way it doesn't matter if you have them and are happy with them to good for you, if you would rather have mag wheels and are happy with them yet again good for you and same for aluminum. There is no real winner here it's all about preference and money. I personally have BST carbons and looked at mags and aluminum wheels, I went the route I did because I got a deal. To sum it up some if us will buy BST wheels or some other brand and others will buy mags at the end of the day it doesn't matter it's your bike and your money do with it as you want.

zvez · Apr 10, 2013

approved for road use could be any country in the world and who knows how exacting the standards are.

DOT, means the wheel meets standards for road use in the US market, the most lawsuit happy country in the world, meaning the standards are probably higher than "certified for road use" means.

Scrapper brings up some very valid points. I absolutely didn't get the impression he was attacking and one wheel over another, he was just trying to dispel some of the misinformation posted here and elsewhere about cf wheels.

YOur having more trust in marchesinis over any other wheel to go 150+ mph is purely anecdotal and your opinion(which you're fully entitled to), it's not based on any scientific evidence whatsoever, but rather seat of the pants, and as pointed out the marchs are not DOT approved so that means they haven't met the standards for road safety in the US (unlike many of the other wheels out there including bst).

Trauma said:
I am not trying to pick this completely apart, just trying to be fair to all materials.
I don't believe your arguement is more valid than mine, as OZ Mags are DOT if I recall.
Why do you attack Mags to try to make CF look better? What about Aluminum forged/cast?
Of all the wheels available for our bikes I trust the Marchesini manuacturing process under me going 150+ more than all the others put together. I am not, and have not, said a negative word about the others, besides appearance.
You cannot convince me Mags are in any way dangerous, and I am not trying to convince you CF is. So no argument.

Edit: Marchesini mag wheels are approved for road use (2 versions, just like Oz), just not DOT. No cop or insurance company is going to bother looking that up, seriously. And I am self insurance anyway

Trauma · Apr 10, 2013

zvez said:
approved for road use could be any country in the world and who knows how exacting the standards are.

DOT, means the wheel meets standards for road use in the US market, the most lawsuit happy country in the world, meaning the standards are probably higher than "certified for road use" means.

Scrapper brings up some very valid points. I absolutely didn't get the impression he was attacking and one wheel over another, he was just trying to dispel some of the misinformation posted here and elsewhere about cf wheels.

YOur having more trust in marchesinis over any other wheel to go 150+ mph is purely anecdotal and your opinion(which you're fully entitled to), it's not based on any scientific evidence whatsoever, but rather seat of the pants, and as pointed out the marchs are not DOT approved so that means they haven't met the standards for road safety in the US (unlike many of the other wheels out there including bst).

I agree. I was merely dispelling the track-only statement. Marchesini does have a road version, and it is possible they chose not to do the expensive DOT certification OZ did for Captiva non-R version. Just because they are not DOT certified, does not imply they do not meet DOT requirements, which no one here even knows what those are. And we as a forum look at helmets that aren't DOT without blinking an eye. So not a big deal. And BTW, I based my statement on quite a bit more than looking at my pants

zvez · Apr 10, 2013

good points. RE: the helmet thing. I looked into this some time ago, the EU standards for helmets are actually as good or higher than DOT and Snell.

an interesting short article:

http://silodrome.com/snell-vs-dot-vs-ece-r22-05-helmet-standards-throwdown/

Trauma said:
I agree. I was merely dispelling the track-only statement. Marchesini does have a road version, and it is possible they chose not to do the expensive DOT certification OZ did for Captiva non-R version. Just because they are not DOT certified, does not imply they do not meet DOT requirements, which no one here even knows wht those are. And we as a forum look at helmets that aren't DOT without blinking and eye. So not a big deal. And BTW, I based my statement on quite a bit more than looking at my pants

VAST · Apr 10, 2013

i am scared of carbon wheels.

Trauma · Apr 10, 2013

VAST said:
i am scared of carbon wheels.

I am scared of this thread

zvez · Apr 10, 2013

I'm scared of the people in this thread!

Trauma said:
I am scared of this thread

VAST · Apr 10, 2013

fear is scary.

Trauma · Apr 10, 2013

That damn ScrappyDoo - now I am going to tense up everytime I see a bump in the road coming up. Not to mention I'll probably do the schoolbus thing at RR tracks, and stop, walk the bike over - thanks buddy!

zvez · Apr 10, 2013

a little touch up paint does a great job of hiding the cracks in the magnesium, a small bottle will fit under you pillion seat!

Trauma said:
That damn ScrappyDoo - now I am going to tense up everytime I see a bump in the road coming up. Not to mention I'll probably do the schoolbus thing at RR tracks, and stop, walk the bike over - thanks buddy!

Trauma · Apr 10, 2013

zvez said:
a little touch up paint does a great job of hiding the cracks in the magnesium, a small bottle will fit under you pillion seat!

So do riders that race with them, but think they are too dangerous for street, keep an extra pair of non-mags for the street? Cuz if they do, I have a pair for sale!!!

Charliem90 · Apr 10, 2013

zvez said:
YOur having more trust in marchesinis over any other wheel to go 150+ mph is purely anecdotal and your opinion(which you're fully entitled to), it's not based on any scientific evidence whatsoever, but rather seat of the pants, and as pointed out the marchs are not DOT approved so that means they haven't met the standards for road safety in the US (unlike many of the other wheels out there including bst).

This isn't quite correct.

That Marchesini's aren't DOT approved doesn't mean that they don't meet those standards - only that they haven't been tested/certified against those standards.

I design electronic circuits that are not UL approved. Doesn't mean they wouldn't pass - only that they haven't been tested for approval by UL.

Because something isn't approved by a certifying organization doesn't mean it doesn't meet the requirements - only that it hasn't been tested against those requirements.

ScrapperX · Apr 10, 2013

Charliem90 said:
This isn't quite correct.

That Marchesini's aren't DOT approved doesn't mean that they don't meet those standards - only that they haven't been tested/certified against those standards.

I design electronic circuits that are not UL approved. Doesn't mean they wouldn't pass - only that they haven't been tested for approval by UL.

Because something isn't approved by a certifying organization doesn't mean it doesn't meet the requirements - only that it hasn't been tested against those requirements.

Doesn't mean that they would pass also. My company design Electronic Equipment to Mil-STD but I just recently submitted a product for CE Certification and we had to make all sorts or modifications to be CE Compliant.
We thought it would pass since Mil-STD is a really tough standard to meet but boy was we wrong. The bottom line is you don't know until you test it against it and standards change all the time.

BST Wheels beware!!!

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