BST Wheels beware!!!

Trauma said:

Everything I do is dangerous, I just minimize my risks. BTW, do you have an on/off switch anywhere? Cuz you need to let this go.

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Ouch! Where is the off switch?

BellissiMoto said:

Seriously, show me anything carbon fiber isn't good enough for.

They've got cf car wheels, cf car frames, cf bicycles, cf motorcycle frames, cf knives (great for passing through security checkpoints btw), cf gun barrels, cf planes, etc....

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I doubt carbon fiber would work well for say engine pistons, or shock springs, or tires, or clutch plates, etc, etc. . But thats neither here nor there. CF is an excellent material and it has its place.

Me personally - I have a funny feeling with carbon fiber wheels. While I know they are no better/worse (different pros/cons) than say lightweight aluminum - I am just not comfortable with them on track. Ironically, I'l more comfortable with them on road which is strange... While riding track with them - they have a different feel to them (or at least I have a different feel with them during braking) than "regular" wheels. So I hesitate personally with them, but I don't advise for/against using CF wheels as its a personal choice.

trauma, now you're thread drifting, we're talking about motorcycle wheels not bicycle wheels, isn't that what you've told all of us? jeeze

Simply not true that more arguments against than for on CF wheels on motorcycles. All the years I've been riding and on loads of bike forums, I can only recall a couple threads of CF wheel failure.

I guess I don't understand why the hard-on to prove your point, if you don't feel they're safe don't buy em. Simple as that.

And one last time. BST CF wheels are DOT approved for STREET use.

Trauma said:

As many arguments for, there are more against. I have been bicycling extensively, touring, racing, etc. since I was 15 - and would never use carbon fiber, just because - not even going to start that argument. But you will never see articles like this against metals, only against CF:

Carbon Fiber Care and Warnings

Let it be known that Aaron's Bicycle Repair, Inc. does not condone or endorse the use of carbon fiber.
We do not hate it. We are only concerned about our customer's safety since carbon fiber has the potential to be a very dangerous product.
Carbon fiber is RACE USE ONLY material. It is designed for world-class racers only.
It should only be worked on by the most highly skilled mechanics. Carbon fiber is not user serviceable!
Our experience in the shop finding many damaged carbon fiber parts has given us this opinion.
The real world is much tougher on carbon fiber than any testing lab! People are not always as careful as they should be with their bicycles.
Carbon fiber parts should be treated with the same care as a fine crystal wine glass!

We do work on many racers (or racer types) carbon fiber dream machines but we are always trepidatious about it and we decline if they start wrenching on it themselves.
Carbon fiber cannot be visually inspected and many parts have only a one-season life span.

Will not do any work on any bike with visibly damaged carbon fiber.
Not even a flat! Bring us the wheel instead.

Any carbon fiber bike or part that has been in a crash or hit by a car should be replaced!
\
From:
Carbon Fiber Warning

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EVERYTHING you do is dangerous. Making coffee, eating a big mac??

Sheesh, Trauma, pot calling the kettle, YOU need to let this thread go, sheesh.

Trauma said:

Everything I do is dangerous, I just minimize my risks. BTW, do you have an on/off switch anywhere? Cuz you need to let this go.

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Bst

Only .... cant believe the negatives about carbon bst wheels,That bad they good,I don't like them. I my self love them all off my bikes have BST but looking to get them Roto-Box on my Panigale.Have to call Bellissimoto.

CEROVA1199 said:

Only .... cant believe the negatives about carbon bst wheels,That bad they good,I don't like them. I my self love them all off my bikes have BST but looking to get them Roto-Box on my Panigale.Have to call Bellissimoto.

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I can't make heads or tails off of this post. . . not to be a spelling/grammar police, but I need some sort of translation with this one.

I think trauma might have explored beyond just the safety or use of carbon wheels but nothing wrong with that. I think a certain vendor may have jumped too much in the defense of CF wheels (especially since there is an perceived financial motive for them in defending this product as they market/import/sell CF wheels). Now vendors mocking members - pretty funny. Not something I would do personally as its probably "bad for business" but hey - what do I know.

Now, in terms of DOT "approval" - I wouldn't put much credence in that at all. Most 'race' items don't pass DOT and not necessarily because its a structural/safety thing. DOT has some arbitrary regulations/limits that are quite absurd. I'm not sure what they are for motorcycle wheels, but I do know for car wheels, DOT regulations involve minimum thicknesses, etc regardless of material strength.

Either way(IMO) - people are free to express what experiences they have and their opinion of them.

anthem said:

I can't make heads or tails off of this post. . . not to be a spelling/grammar police, but I need some sort of translation with this one.

I think trauma might have explored beyond just the safety or use of carbon wheels but nothing wrong with that. I think a certain vendor may have jumped too much in the defense of CF wheels (especially since there is an perceived financial motive for them in defending this product as they market/import/sell CF wheels). Now vendors mocking members - pretty funny. Not something I would do personally as its probably "bad for business" but hey - what do I know.

Now, in terms of DOT "approval" - I wouldn't put much credence in that at all. Most 'race' items don't pass DOT and not necessarily because its a structural/safety thing. DOT has some arbitrary regulations/limits that are quite absurd. I'm not sure what they are for motorcycle wheels, but I do know for car wheels, DOT regulations involve minimum thicknesses, etc regardless of material strength.

Either way(IMO) - people are free to express what experiences they have and their opinion of them.

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The translation on this post its simply,Don't complain about the BST.Iff some one hits a huge pothole, All off them companies that make the wheels for any bikes will bend or crack, As for me i just love the BST wheels on all off my bikes. I dint mean to be NEGATIVE at all.Just a fact.

anthem said:

I can't make heads or tails off of this post. . . not to be a spelling/grammar police, but I need some sort of translation with this one.

I think trauma might have explored beyond just the safety or use of carbon wheels but nothing wrong with that. I think a certain vendor may have jumped too much in the defense of CF wheels (especially since there is an perceived financial motive for them in defending this product as they market/import/sell CF wheels). Now vendors mocking members - pretty funny. Not something I would do personally as its probably "bad for business" but hey - what do I know.

Now, in terms of DOT "approval" - I wouldn't put much credence in that at all. Most 'race' items don't pass DOT and not necessarily because its a structural/safety thing. DOT has some arbitrary regulations/limits that are quite absurd. I'm not sure what they are for motorcycle wheels, but I do know for car wheels, DOT regulations involve minimum thicknesses, etc regardless of material strength.

Either way(IMO) - people are free to express what experiences they have and their opinion of them.

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Thanks Anthem, that really summed up this thread. It started with George posting a BST wheel appearing to almost go to pieces from hitting a tire rut. I commented on it, and then .... hit the fan. Belle starting slamming mag wheels, and saying he trusts CF more than any wheel (both my emails got spammed by his big CF wheel announcement, plus a thread). I never said one was better/worse, and then the CF wheel defense went viral.

I think someone just need to give me FREE CF wheels and Mag wheels so that I can test this myself.

I will post my review in 1 or 2 years and will give the wheels back.

Hi people,

This is an official response from us, the BST distributor for Taiwan, Vietnam, Hong Kong and China;
This is not a genuine case. First off, BST wheels are constructed well above any endurance standard for motorcycle wheels worldwide. Let that be clear. But, when you use a 60 profile tyre instead of the recommended 70 profile you are stacking problems. Lower profile means less side wall and less volume of air generally. Air is a great cushion and shock absorber and so is rubber. A 16.5 tyre on a race bike has the same rolling circumference as a 17" tyre. The higher side wall in this case allows the air to act as suspension and the side wall of the tyre collapses a bit giving better grip. In this case you have the wrong tyre with less rubber, less air so it demands a whole lot more of the wheel and suspension.

The speed does not matter that much - sometimes quicker is better. Depending on the road hazard you can skim over the top instead of go in. Braking into a hole or hitting a defect in the road surface makes a huge difference as you have a huge transfer in weight, with the added factor of the shift of the body position. Try riding over a speed bump seated, or standing on the pegs with your weight thrown backwards"¦..Guess which works better?

This inadequate mechanic states also another case where someone else had a big crash, totaled the bike , but concluded the wheels held up very well. To state both opposing cases as part of his argument is really random fact picking. This mechanic was not present at the location of the crash. He has only hearsay. His client does not speak English, and has no idea about these forum discussions. He probably does not even know he was given the wrong set of tyres by his clumsy mechanic. On top of this, while our own company, as well as BST SA were looking into this case, discussing affordable, reasonable solutions, this irresponsable mechanic chose to go public, hoping this might function as a blackmaling tool to obtain completely new , and free BST's for his client, thus avoiding having to take financial responsability for his own installation failure.. The wheels in question were never sent to SA for inspection and a final decision. We DID offer a strongly discounted set of replacement wheels. Basically, this mechanic is attempting blackmail. We always find a workable solution that has to do with getting the customer back on BST wheels. But then we are normally dealing with honest people.
The problem here is a dealer that fit the wrong size tyres on his clients brand new BST's and is now diverting responsibility to the BlackStoneTek. If this client had been on aluminium or magnesium, he might not have lived to tell the tale.
This is our position.
Stan, Capricore trading, Taiwan

About the "dot road approved" issue, may I add this; For example, here in Taiwan, EVERY part on a motorbike that is not supplied by the official producer of the original bike is illegal. Even "Original Harley accessories" are illegal. Magnesium wheels are illegal in many countries for a good reason, and carbon wheels might be illegal ONLY because BST has chosen not to spend buckets of money trying to have their wheels government approved in 180 seperate countries. Not even the German TUV will help you legalize your wheels worldwide.
In the end, if you ride on carbon wheels, harder than steel, and many times more flexible, you are riding on wheels that won't shatter on impact. Carbon, on impact, allows for a more graduate, slow air pressure release, often allowing many more seconds to slow down after wheel impact, thus avoiding the worst of the crash.
Something to think about.

Ooh, I thought you knew..
This guy bought a custom size 6.625" BST, since he ordered the same size tyres from Michelin. After receiving both wheels and tyres, he found the tyres to be 6". Wrong delivery. He decided to install them still.
If that is not enough, check the pictures online. This guy had the side of his rims cracked. This is not a rim that was pushed outwards due to pressure or other forces. This is impact damage, both wheels, one sided. this client went through a corner on the wrong, smaller tires, hit a bad pothole, and busted both wheels on the same side of the rim.

What tyres he have on the back ?

I have a few BST's here that I use when faced with doubting clients. Regular BST's that I use especially to throw off rooftops and out of second floor windows. They do not have tyres on them. They land on concrete. They are yet to crack. That is why I know.

That's awesome Stan . What tyres did he have on the back ?

floyd111 said:

Hi people,

This is an official response from us, the BST distributor for Taiwan, Vietnam, Hong Kong and China;
This is not a genuine case. First off, BST wheels are constructed well above any endurance standard for motorcycle wheels worldwide. Let that be clear. But, when you use a 60 profile tyre instead of the recommended 70 profile you are stacking problems. Lower profile means less side wall and less volume of air generally. Air is a great cushion and shock absorber and so is rubber. A 16.5 tyre on a race bike has the same rolling circumference as a 17" tyre. The higher side wall in this case allows the air to act as suspension and the side wall of the tyre collapses a bit giving better grip. In this case you have the wrong tyre with less rubber, less air so it demands a whole lot more of the wheel and suspension.

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So the official position is that front wheel damage was caused by running a 120x60 instead of a 120x70? Are safe load margins that thin with BST wheels? And given that 120x60 IS recommended tire on some superbikes (my 748 was one -which used the same wheel as 916 which came with 120x70), is BST now advising their wheels should not be used on some SBKs because they have a small safe load margin?
If it is true that BST is claiming that failure on the front was due to a 120x60 being mounted instead of a 120x70, then I'd be VERY hesitant to use BST wheels knowing they have that thin a safety margin.

I find this a very unusual way for a company to handle a issue like this .
I gather this is a official response from Stan the BST agent in Taiwan not the company BST .

Charliem90 said:

So the official position is that front wheel damage was caused by running a 120x60 instead of a 120x70? Are safe load margins that thin with BST wheels? And given that 120x60 IS recommended tire on some superbikes (my 748 was one -which used the same wheel as 916 which came with 120x70), is BST now advising their wheels should not be used on some SBKs because they have a small safe load margin?
If it is true that BST is claiming that failure on the front was due to a 120x60 being mounted instead of a 120x70, then I'd be VERY hesitant to use BST wheels knowing they have that thin a safety margin.

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I agree. I'm not in any way against carbon wheels but this explanation just doesn't stand up in my view. You can drop them from buildings, attack them with hammers and they are supposed to be massively stronger than anything else. Fit a lower profile front and it falls apart...

I too would be interested to know what was fitted to the rear.

I'm so surprised to hear everyone is still using wheels. Hover mode only for me, you guys are too old school. I must be the only one with hover mode equipped.

My name is Josh, the importer of the BST wheels to Vietnam that Stan is referring to in his post (why he had to hide behind a new account, I don't know). The rear tire was a 200/50, rather than a 190/55 tire, which is roughly 4.5mm lower in profile than the original tire. This is the biggest tire in the line from Michelin.

From the get go, we expected to go with the wider rear wheel for the better looks of it...given that the BMW swingarm was so much bigger than normal. Stan is wrong in saying that we ordered a 6in tire. If we had ordered a 6in tire, I would have gone with the 190's and not the 200's.

Stan has taken this issue beyond personal. Beyond, that of a BST representative, who should be working to resolve issues without having to go on personal attacks on the forums. I am quite disappointed with Stan.

I have been up front all along, never concealing anything, even if to try to push for a warranty claim. I am not afraid of the truth. Anything you need to know to satisfy your curiosity regarding this case, please ask away and I will reply.