BST Wheels beware!!!

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I love em, have had enough friends use them on the road for sustained periods that I'd have no reservation riding with a pair or doing track days on them, none whatsoever.

The only reason I don't have em is I can't afford em.

I will make the distinction, that I'm speaking of the BST wheels which are dot approved and not some of the other wheels out there which I'm not sure are dot approved.


Trauma said:
Lets have some people that don't sell or use CF wheels compliment them, other than looks - which btw, I hate :D
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George Villar said:
BST Rims Damaged on first extended ride - BMW S1000RR Forums: BMW Sportbike Forum
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I'm no expert but by looking at the pictures of the "damaged" wheel on the s1000rr forum... looks like they were impacted a lot harder than they made it sound. It's missing chunks as if they came in direct contact with something. Looks like a hard impact damage rather than the wheels' fibers just "unraveling". Besides, both wheels failing like that is not very likely unless they did hit something really hard that would cause such damage.

Then again, I've bent wheels(aluminum) in the past without even realizing I ever hit anything that hard. I can only assume under-inflated tires could cause such damage... who knows if the wheels caused the loss of air to start with, which caused the tires to soften enough to cause direct impact. Too many variables that may have caused the loss of tire pressure... it could have been the valves, tires, bad install, etc. The tire on the said bike/wheel looks properly inflated in the picture, though.

On a side note, I've had the unfortunate experience of testing one of my CF helmets against a sidewalk/curb traveling at a rather fast pace. I was fortunate to hit the curb bouncing my big noggin on the way up. I cringe to think that I could have hit it directly or on the way down. No helmet is going to save me from spinal damage. Anyways, the helmet held up awesome. No unraveling of the fibers whatsoever... The only damage to the helmet was the missing chunk at the impact area. Here's the picture of the helmet.
photo-40.jpg


I know that some of you might say that they are completely different products and I agree... but it demonstrate how sturdy CF(or similar hybrid materials) products are. Btw, Premier helmets are awesome! They are really hard to find in the U.S. but you can find them all over Europe. I have 3 and love them! They are extremely light, hold up and protect really well as you can see.

I would get CF wheels if my stock S wheels weren't so freaking nice. Oh and the price. Always wanted CF wheels... Maybe it's time for a set for the new R. :D
 
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Also, tho certainly don't know the owner or more specific than what was covered in the s1krr thread, but it's in his best interests to minimize what the "road ripple" was to give him some chance of getting refund/replacements, as the warranty doesn't normally cover damage from road hazard.
 
I ran into an extension ladder on the highway once and bent both my front and rear wheels (aluminum), but they weren't bad at all and I was still able to ride home. These wheels look really damaged...almost like the rider wasn't paying attention and did something stupid (like hitting an extension ladder).
 
Would I use CF wheels? Maybe.

I raced on Marchesini mags on a 750ss, Aprilia Cup, and TZ250. They withstood all the abuse that racing, crashing, and heavy handed tire-techs could inflict on them. Never had cause to not feel confident on them even after having seen notable video failures by others (really brutal one at IOMTT by Robert Dunlop would give anyone pause about using them).
Still the pursuit of lighter materials for competitive edge has it's risks. CF has been around long enough that their record would indicate (at least to me) that they're at least as safe as Mag for use on the street and track. But anyone using either should at least be clear-minded enough to recognize that with the technological boundary pushing there are risks and sometimes stuff happens. If you don't like the risks, maybe you shouldn't be riding a motorcycle...
 
Trauma said:
Can we not get in a pissing contests? It was one article - anyone can find examples anywhere. No one said Mags were perfectly safe. Posting Mag pictures is a stupid response to the article, does not help make CFs look any safer. Lets drop it.
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No pissing contest, and I'm not trying to put down mag wheels. Just trying to point out that "things fail" doesn't matter what you have, someone else with the same "unbreakable" object has found a way (possibly through no fault of his or her own) to break it.

That's all I'm saying.

Ohh and I'll say that I've used BST's and Dymag carbon fiber wheels so far in my life, and never had a problem with any of them. Of course I've never had a problem with any of my aluminum wheels from Oz, Marchesini, Carrozzeria, Brembo, Enkei, etc... and no problems from my Forged Magnesium wheels either.

I guess the pot holes I've hit, and crashes I've had haven't been bad enough to get em', but I've only ridden 100,000+ miles on the street, with over 50 some different bikes, so what do I know?

:rolleyes:
 
zvez said:
Also, tho certainly don't know the owner or more specific than what was covered in the s1krr thread, but it's in his best interests to minimize what the "road ripple" was to give him some chance of getting refund/replacements, as the warranty doesn't normally cover damage from road hazard.
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Very likely, but that is of course just speculation, which is easy, and sometimes fun to do...
 
Those wheels on the BMW look like they took decent hit I call ........ on the OP.
I have had three sets of BST wheels on different bikes the set on my 1098 did about 20,000 ks of street riding and not one issue on some very average roads .
I recently saw a set of Panigale S wheels bend like butter front and rear after hitting a pot hole they were replaced .
 
Have to say I'm with those who think that BMW post reeks a bit of someone wanting to get paid for doing something dumb they're not being quite forthcoming about. I kind of checked up right off at "damaged during the first extended ride by our client". A JRA event, as we used to call it in the biz.

Sure; you can break anything, including breaking your wheels without crashing. And the lighter the thing is, the more likely. As the saying goes; light, strong, cheap - pick any two... ;)

CF is old news to me; putting my cyclist hat back on for a minute, I remember back when Trek first came to market with CF bike frames back in the late 80's. They encountered a lot of the same concerns you see in this thread, which were not unwarranted then since there had been some very visible CF failures under big-name pros on other brands in the early days of CF.

So Trek supplied their big dealers with a comparison "kit" that included some CF frame tubes of theirs along with some steel and aluminum tubes like most bikes were made with then. And a dead-blow hammer. Having personally tried it, I can attest you could beat the living crap out of the carbon tubes and they'd bounce right back, where the same blows would utterly destroy the metal tubes that were a lot heavier. Point being, impacts are not really the issue with properly designed and built CF structures. The issues, to the extent that there are any real ones nowadays, are design and build QC. If you get those right, CF will be as durable and resilient as any metal structure. Speaking of resilient, every Corvette built for the last decade plus has had composite leaf springs holding its arse up, and you don't see a lot of those breaking from fatigue, do you. No. Proper design.

So CF can be used to build things that will hold up just as well as metal, while being lighter and stiffer at the same time. You'd be hard-pressed to find a metal frame under any serious cyclist these days, as the standard has been CF for years now. There are Tons of CF frames in mainstream use. I've had a number myself, and have crashed them, hit deer with them (not recommended, btw), all sorts of mayhem, and they held up just as well as the metal frames I'd had; much better in fact than light aluminum ones. Heck; I just dropped off a mountain at nearly 60mph last weekend on a now-5-yr-old frame that weighs 900 grams (2lbs). Plenty to be concerned about doing that, but the CF was not on my list.

I wouldn't hesitate to ride BST's myself, but then I've only been trusting my neck to carbon fiber for about 25 years... :rolleyes:
 
zvez said:
hell they build jet turbine fans and helicopter rotor blades out of cf.
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Again - not even a close comparison - turbine blades and helicopter blades are not intended to ever impact anything, i.e., a post hole our curb, and built to a totally different standard. This conversation is only about carbon fiber motorcycle wheels, nothing else - talk about off topic guys, jeeze.
 
Steve B said:
Have to say I'm with those who think that BMW post reeks a bit of someone wanting to get paid for doing something dumb they're not being quite forthcoming about. I kind of checked up right off at "damaged during the first extended ride by our client". A JRA event, as we used to call it in the biz.

Sure; you can break anything, including breaking your wheels without crashing. And the lighter the thing is, the more likely. As the saying goes; light, strong, cheap - pick any two... ;)

CF is old news to me; putting my cyclist hat back on for a minute, I remember back when Trek first came to market with CF bike frames back in the late 80's. They encountered a lot of the same concerns you see in this thread, which were not unwarranted then since there had been some very visible CF failures under big-name pros on other brands in the early days of CF.

So Trek supplied their big dealers with a comparison "kit" that included some CF frame tubes of theirs along with some steel and aluminum tubes like most bikes were made with then. And a dead-blow hammer. Having personally tried it, I can attest you could beat the living crap out of the carbon tubes and they'd bounce right back, where the same blows would utterly destroy the metal tubes that were a lot heavier. Point being, impacts are not really the issue with properly designed and built CF structures. The issues, to the extent that there are any real ones nowadays, are design and build QC. If you get those right, CF will be as durable and resilient as any metal structure. Speaking of resilient, every Corvette built for the last decade plus has had composite leaf springs holding its arse up, and you don't see a lot of those breaking from fatigue, do you. No. Proper design.

So CF can be used to build things that will hold up just as well as metal, while being lighter and stiffer at the same time. You'd be hard-pressed to find a metal frame under any serious cyclist these days, as the standard has been CF for years now. There are Tons of CF frames in mainstream use. I've had a number myself, and have crashed them, hit deer with them (not recommended, btw), all sorts of mayhem, and they held up just as well as the metal frames I'd had; much better in fact than light aluminum ones. Heck; I just dropped off a mountain at nearly 60mph last weekend on a now-5-yr-old frame that weighs 900 grams (2lbs). Plenty to be concerned about doing that, but the CF was not on my list.

I wouldn't hesitate to ride BST's myself, but then I've only been trusting my neck to carbon fiber for about 25 years... :rolleyes:
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As many arguments for, there are more against. I have been bicycling extensively, touring, racing, etc. since I was 15 - and would never use carbon fiber, just because - not even going to start that argument. But you will never see articles like this against metals, only against CF:

Carbon Fiber Care and Warnings

Let it be known that Aaron's Bicycle Repair, Inc. does not condone or endorse the use of carbon fiber.
We do not hate it. We are only concerned about our customer's safety since carbon fiber has the potential to be a very dangerous product.
Carbon fiber is RACE USE ONLY material. It is designed for world-class racers only.
It should only be worked on by the most highly skilled mechanics. Carbon fiber is not user serviceable!
Our experience in the shop finding many damaged carbon fiber parts has given us this opinion.
The real world is much tougher on carbon fiber than any testing lab! People are not always as careful as they should be with their bicycles.
Carbon fiber parts should be treated with the same care as a fine crystal wine glass!

We do work on many racers (or racer types) carbon fiber dream machines but we are always trepidatious about it and we decline if they start wrenching on it themselves.
Carbon fiber cannot be visually inspected and many parts have only a one-season life span.

Will not do any work on any bike with visibly damaged carbon fiber.
Not even a flat! Bring us the wheel instead.

Any carbon fiber bike or part that has been in a crash or hit by a car should be replaced!
\
From:
Carbon Fiber Warning
 
Charliem90 said:
Would I use CF wheels? Maybe.

I raced on Marchesini mags on a 750ss, Aprilia Cup, and TZ250. They withstood all the abuse that racing, crashing, and heavy handed tire-techs could inflict on them. Never had cause to not feel confident on them even after having seen notable video failures by others (really brutal one at IOMTT by Robert Dunlop would give anyone pause about using them).
Still the pursuit of lighter materials for competitive edge has it's risks. CF has been around long enough that their record would indicate (at least to me) that they're at least as safe as Mag for use on the street and track. But anyone using either should at least be clear-minded enough to recognize that with the technological boundary pushing there are risks and sometimes stuff happens. If you don't like the risks, maybe you shouldn't be riding a motorcycle...
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Well said!
 
Trauma said:
As many arguments for, there are more against. I have been bicycling extensively, touring, racing, etc. since I was 15 - and would never use carbon fiber, just because - not even going to start that argument. But you will never see articles like this against metals, only against CF:

Carbon Fiber Care and Warnings
Click to expand...

Wow. Your choice of course and that's fine, but it's certainly not a mainstream view. Indeed it puts you in the extreme minority, as virtually ALL bike manufacturers' mid-level up road products are made from Carbon Fiber now, and have been for quite some time. And the carbon stuff has long been getting ridden by regular Freds and Bettys on their weekend jaunts, not just "world class racers" like that crazy Luddite stuff on the Aaron's page. That is just nuts; I've got to send that link around to some of my pedaling buds. They'll all piss themselves that anyone still believes that stuff. Seriously; that thing reads like it was written 20+ years ago. Actually might have been from the looks of the page. Time capsule maybe?

I've heard all the arguments of this versus that material, and have extensive experience with them all, first hand, over the years. While there may be a (very) few like yourself that are still spooked by carbon, the majority have been using it safely and happily for quite a long time now. Hell; the new last race bike I got that wasn't carbon was a scandium-framed team bike that was basically given to me, and I broke that one in about 3 months. Snapped a chainstay in half, no crash, no bump, no nothing; wasn't even at a weld - just underbuilt trying to be as light and stiff as the carbon bikes. BTW, that company doesn't sell anything BUT carbon bikes in that price range anymore, and they don't break. Steel's mostly used for retro stuff or by niche builders wanting to do ornamental lugwork and the like, while AL is mostly just bottom feeder price point junk and Titanium has been relegated to the fringes. Thing about those metals that cottage industry guys like is if you have some files and a torch, you can set up a shop out back and build frames or work on them. It takes some sophistication to understand, let alone work with, carbon. That was in short supply at one point, but that point is long gone.

I've got six-figure mileage on my pins under my own power, and I've done it on every material you can build a bike out of save magnesium or bamboo (yes, they make 'em). Have a beautiful steel Colnago keeping my carbon-fiber Cannondale company at home. The steel Colnago is way prettier, but there is simply zero argument which material has won the performance battle. That ship sailed a long time ago; welcome to the 21st century! :cool:

Bringing this back around to being on topic, there is nothing inherently wrong with making wheels out of carbon fiber. It is potentially the best material out there currently, but it does need to be designed and constructed properly. No different from any other material in that regard.
 
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Steve B said:
Wow. Your choice of course and that's fine, but it's certainly not a mainstream view. Indeed it puts you in the extreme minority, as virtually ALL bike manufacturers' mid-level up road products are made from Carbon Fiber now, and have been for quite some time. And the carbon stuff has long been getting ridden by regular Freds and Bettys on their weekend jaunts, not just "world class racers" like that crazy Luddite stuff on the Aaron's page. That is just nuts; I've got to send that link around to some of my pedaling buds. They'll all piss themselves that anyone still believes that stuff. Seriously; that thing reads like it was written 20+ years ago. Actually might have been from the looks of the page. Time capsule maybe?

I've heard all the arguments of this versus that material, and have extensive experience with them all, first hand, over the years. While there may still be a (very) few like yourself that are still spooked by carbon, the majority have been using it safely and happily for quite a long time now. Hell; the new last race bike I got that wasn't carbon was a scandium-framed team bike that was basically given to me, and I broke that one in about 3 months. Snapped a chainstay in half, no crash, no bump, no nothing; wasn't even at a weld - just underbuilt trying to be as light and stiff as the carbon bikes. BTW, that company doesn't sell anything BUT carbon bikes in that price range anymore, and they don't break. Steel's mostly used for retro stuff or by niche builders wanting to do ornamental lugwork and the like, while AL is mostly just bottom feeder price point junk and Titanium has been relegated to the fringes. Thing about those metals that cottage industry guys like is if you have some files and a torch, you can set up a shop out back and build frames or work on them. It takes some sophistication to understand, let alone work with, carbon. That was in short supply at one point, but that point is long gone.

I've got six-figure mileage on my pins under my own power, and I've done it on every material you can build a bike out of save magnesium or bamboo (yes, they make 'em). Have a beautiful steel Colnago keeping my carbon-fiber Cannondale company at home. The steel Colnago is way prettier, but there is simply zero argument which material has won the performance battle. That ship sailed a long time ago; welcome to the 21st century! :cool:

Bringing this back around to being on topic, there is nothing inherently wrong with making wheels out of carbon fiber. It is potentially the best material out there currently, but it does need to be designed and constructed properly. No different from any other material in that regard.
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I am not disputing any of that - and I have never in this entire thread said CFs are bad, I just presented evidence that it isn't perfect. My personal experience was my bicycle front wheel hitting a grate, and the CF forks snapped, I did a head plant, woke up in the ambulance (3 yrs ago). But I would never tell people not to use CF, or that it is dangerous, this whole thread got completely blown out of proportion.
 
Damn trauma,

What's gonna happen you find out that motorcycling is dangerous?

Take up... gosh I don't know... finger painting? :p
 
Seriously, show me anything carbon fiber isn't good enough for.

They've got cf car wheels, cf car frames, cf bicycles, cf motorcycle frames, cf knives (great for passing through security checkpoints btw), cf gun barrels, cf planes, etc....
 

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