Ducati removed....

reganc said:

making a 849 would have been a better option for racing purposes and i don't think it would have taken anything away from the bike.

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Exactly.

With all of that being said, the 899 does fit into the B/750 classes with WERA and there are the Twins classes it can race in.

I would love for Ducati to release an 899 with a single sided swingarm, Forged Aluminum wheels and Ohlins suspension...and with a little bump in power. Like an additional 10hp and 5-10ft/lbs of torque.

The problem is they want to keep the cost down on the 899 so there is a gap between the 899 and 1299 so it appeals to different people (Ducati said that is why they didn't put a single-sided swingarm on the 899).

The changes I would like to see would likely increase the cost by $2-3k and bring it too close to the 1299 base. But those changes would make it more competitive and would probably be enough to make me get one.

I would trade my 1299s for an 899s. Why?

Because I have no need for the extra power and my friends and I already know my pee pee is small so I have no need to have a hp war.

The Suzuki GSXR 750 is a better sportbike than the GSXR 1000. But the 1000 is the race bike, track bike.

Same with the 899. If you take away the 1199's ........ Momo features, and just make the best street sport bike you can, the 899 is what you get. If you want to win magazine superbike shootouts and attract Momo's and bench racers, then the 1199, and the 1299 are what you have to go for. But on the street, softer suspension, and a smaller engine are nice.

The 1199, and 1299 would be fine bikes with less racey engines with better manners, but that just doesn't sell. Ones setup to be a winning superbike, the other is just a sportbike. If Ducati made a perfect sportbike for the street and canyons, noone would buy it. That's why the 899 exists. To bridge the gap between the superbike nonsense, and what we know is perfect for the street.

As a person who only does track days, the 899 was a no brainer for me. I had been on plenty of 1199s and other than COTA, I have never wanted for the extra power. The 899 felt at home with my feeble skills.

That said, I would be curious to see how the 1299 is. Rumor has it they picked up some of the handling characteristics of the 899.

Lord knows with all the money in my 899, I probably could have afforded the 1199

The thing is, they could have accomplished all of that (lower price, softer suspension, more tame motor etc) without adding the extra 50cc's.

That is my point/aggravation.

I get the appeal of the 899. I just hate that Ducati added 50cc's and made it illegal for all of the race classes. They had a great race platform in the 848, they could have stuck with that ideal and made the new one an 849.

Then you would have the street bike you guys like, plus the MW/SS race bike platform that many of us desire.

Chaotic said:

The thing is, they could have accomplished all of that (lower price, softer suspension, more tame motor etc) without adding the extra 50cc's.

That is my point/aggravation.

I get the appeal of the 899. I just hate that Ducati added 50cc's and made it illegal for all of the race classes. They had a great race platform in the 848, they could have stuck with that ideal and made the new one an 849.

Then you would have the street bike you guys like, plus the MW/SS race bike platform that many of us desire.

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This right here. Although when I thought about it more, I can see how it happened. The FIM limit is 749cc's, and there were all kinds of rumors they were going to make a wild twin to fit under those guidelines for WSS. The 848 was only ever really eligible to race with 600's in AMA. No other major series allowed it. Club racing in the US followed the AMA guidelines. So essentaily, they would have been doing it just for US clubracers. Trackday riders don't really care about displacement limits.

I'm guessing they realized it couldn't be made competative in WSS and just abandoned the idea entirely after that and picked a base platform that would be easier to port to other models. Still agree 100% that they could have left it at 848 and nobody would have noticed the performance difference.

shakazulu12 said:

This right here. Although when I thought about it more, I can see how it happened. The FIM limit is 749cc's, and there were all kinds of rumors they were going to make a wild twin to fit under those guidelines for WSS. The 848 was only ever really eligible to race with 600's in AMA. No other major series allowed it. Club racing in the US followed the AMA guidelines. So essentaily, they would have been doing it just for US clubracers. Trackday riders don't really care about displacement limits.

I'm guessing they realized it couldn't be made competative in WSS and just abandoned the idea entirely after that and picked a base platform that would be easier to port to other models. Still agree 100% that they could have left it at 848 and nobody would have noticed the performance difference.

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Interesting observation.

I remember that once upon a time the AMA rules included up to 750 twins for what was called Middleweight SS. Following success of Ducati in '95/'96 with obliterating the corresponding class in Euro FIM (and announcing they would campaign the 749R in AMA the following year), the AMA changed their rules for '97 to be 600cc (politics). I figured that Ducati has given a big F.U. to any further AMA middleweight considerations since.

Charliem90 said:

Interesting observation.

I remember that once upon a time the AMA rules included up to 750 twins for what was called Middleweight SS. Following success of Ducati in '95/'96 with obliterating the corresponding class in Euro FIM (and announcing they would campaign the 749R in AMA the following year), the AMA changed their rules for '97 to be 600cc (politics). I figured that Ducati has given a big F.U. to any further AMA middleweight considerations since.

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The AMA still allows up to 849cc Twins.

A buddy of mine won the Daytona 200 on an 848 a few years ago.

The problem is that the AMA also has limits on the age of the bike. You can't ride old bikes professionally. They do make exceptions sometimes when the bike hasn't changed at all, and is visually identical (like the R6 for example).

The 848 is now several years old, and an older generation bike. So it isn't allowed. If Ducati would have kept it at 849cc's, you would see Panigale's racing in AMA Supersport/Superstock.

Might she look like this ?

Buliwyf said:

. If you want to win magazine superbike shootouts and attract Momo's and bench racers, then the 1199, and the 1299 are what you have to go for. But on the street, softer suspension, and a smaller engine are nice.

The 1199, and 1299 would be fine bikes with less racey engines with better manners, but that just doesn't sell. Ones setup to be a winning superbike, the other is just a sportbike. If Ducati made a perfect sportbike for the street and canyons, noone would buy it. That's why the 899 exists. To bridge the gap between the superbike nonsense, and what we know is perfect for the street.

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I am amused by your simplification.

Age old rule.. When you don't GET something.. Talk it down.. makes it irrelative to the pseudo reality in YOUR little world..

carry on..

Why sell a 2 egg sausage and pancake breakfast when you sell the Danny's Grand Slam 4 eggs sausage bacon and 4 pancakes for $2 more. No wonder Americans are overweight.

Better bigger more!

al1surf said:

Might she look like this ?

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I hope not