Ducati Rumored to Ditch the Superquadro Engine and Replace It with a MotoGP-Derived V

jarelj · Aug 27, 2015

I think when it comes to racing and winning, Ducati has very few "sacred cows" and the Twin archtitecture is actually not one of them. Ducati historically ran a twin in WSBK because it gave them an advantage on grip in the days before NASA-level electronics came stock on every bike. If they made a V4 it would still be Desmo-valved, just like the D16 so that would still provide the Ducati "identity". As far as whether they'd make one as the standard production platform for the Superbike range, who knows. Personally I like the twins for street bikes, you can get horsepower and smoothness from a V4 but not the "character" of the twin. I've ridden a few RSV-4's and they're certainly fast, but not as fun as the Panigale. The D16 is a hoot to ride because of the sound, but I wouldn't want that as my main bike to cruise around on. Who knows, I think this is all wild speculation at this point and it's a long way down the road.

flobrandx · Aug 27, 2015

so which rumor are we going with? Aluminum perimeter frame or V4? or both?

wait a minute......that would make it an RSV4!

Phl · Aug 27, 2015

flobrandx said:
so which rumor are we going with? Aluminum perimeter frame or V4? or both?

wait a minute......that would make it an RSV4!

well, ask Gigi about his origin...

flobrandx · Aug 27, 2015

Phl said:
well, ask Gigi about his origin...

well played sir

jyli19 · Aug 27, 2015

The Frameless concept is difficult for racing because it does not allow a lot flexibility in engine placement and adjusting weight distribution during race weekend. But a street bike, you get the benefit or less weight and narrow body. I would love to see Duc keep the frameless design with a 1000 L4, go with big bang firing order to keep some of the twin power characteristics.

CaliRosso · Aug 27, 2015

All things come to an end:
Que air cooled Porsche?
Some of us are old enough to remember when that loss was a holy- .... moment.
I personally think they'll have to go to a v4 just stay competitive with the next gen aprillia, R1, and we can definitely count on the Honda empire to strike back..:-0

kismetcapitan · Aug 27, 2015

jyli19 said:
The Frameless concept is difficult for racing because it does not allow a lot flexibility in engine placement and adjusting weight distribution during race weekend. But a street bike, you get the benefit or less weight and narrow body. I would love to see Duc keep the frameless design with a 1000 L4, go with big bang firing order to keep some of the twin power characteristics.

while true, I remember reading that Aprilia's WSBK team never made use of the built-in variable engine mounts to move the motor around. There's more of an issue of the placement of the crankshaft relative to the wheel hubs (more forwards tends to be better), and for the entire bike to be able to flex uniformly while leaned over at 55 degrees - something the frameless design cannot, because the big centerpiece doesn't flex at all.

Who knows what Gigi is doing? On the one hand, he's canted the V-4 motor into an actual V, greatly helping with packaging. Using an L configuration, with either two or four cylinders, chassis-wise is much like Porsche hanging the engine behind the rear axle. Porsche's engineering is all about making this untenable engine configuration continually competitive after decades and decades. As far as MotoGP goes, I guess Ducati threw in the towel on the L configuration after 12 years of difficulties getting it to work (Casey Stoner notwithstanding).

But then on the other hand, the frameless design is not only very much alive, it has become wicked fast in the hands of Davies and Giugliano - the latter may not finish as many races as he should, but he can lay down scorching lap times. What sort of voodoo did Gigi do to the Panigale to make it so competitive?

All I hope for is for the Panigale to win a superbike championship (it has already won a superstock championship), to continue the trend of every iteration of a Ducati Superbike since the 916 to take the crown home at least once at the end of the season.

Ljuice26 · Aug 27, 2015

kismetcapitan said:
while true, I remember reading that Aprilia's WSBK team never made use of the built-in variable engine mounts to move the motor around. There's more of an issue of the placement of the crankshaft relative to the wheel hubs (more forwards tends to be better), and for the entire bike to be able to flex uniformly while leaned over at 55 degrees - something the frameless design cannot, because the big centerpiece doesn't flex at all.

Who knows what Gigi is doing? On the one hand, he's canted the V-4 motor into an actual V, greatly helping with packaging. Using an L configuration, with either two or four cylinders, chassis-wise is much like Porsche hanging the engine behind the rear axle. Porsche's engineering is all about making this untenable engine configuration continually competitive after decades and decades. As far as MotoGP goes, I guess Ducati threw in the towel on the L configuration after 12 years of difficulties getting it to work (Casey Stoner notwithstanding).

But then on the other hand, the frameless design is not only very much alive, it has become wicked fast in the hands of Davies and Giugliano - the latter may not finish as many races as he should, but he can lay down scorching lap times. What sort of voodoo did Gigi do to the Panigale to make it so competitive?

All I hope for is for the Panigale to win a superbike championship (it has already won a superstock championship), to continue the trend of every iteration of a Ducati Superbike since the 916 to take the crown home at least once at the end of the season.

If Chaz would have finished a few more races, he would be right there in striking distance of Rea. Round 5 in Italy really hurt Chaz. The current iteration of the Panigale R in WSBK is a very capable bike. I am interested to see what Ducati does in the future.

Chaotic · Aug 28, 2015

jyli19 said:
The Frameless concept is difficult for racing because it does not allow a lot flexibility in engine placement and adjusting weight distribution during race weekend.

kismetcapitan said:
while true, I remember reading that Aprilia's WSBK team never made use of the built-in variable engine mounts to move the motor around.

Neither one of those comments are applicable to the current rules. You cannot change the engine's position during the season.

Even though Aprilia has the ability to move the engine in the frame, they are not allowed to do so. They had to homologate a single engine position for the season. And Haslam has stated he feels like they made the wrong choice and placed the engine too low, and that is one of the reasons why he is struggling.

Ducati Rumored to Ditch the Superquadro Engine and Replace It with a MotoGP-Derived V

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