Grokking traction control...

Just want to enhance my understanding of TC, others may be in the same boat...

In so far as I understand it when TC detects rear wheel slip via a difference in the rotation of the front and rear slotted encoder rings it kills engine power by killing the spark for a few cycles until traction is restored.

Is killing the spark the only option as I find it is quite disruptive and causes the bike to splutter quite badly. (I guess when I'm riding and it fires it is usually caused by poor surface such as dirt on the road or trying to launch hard on a damp surface etc so it comes on pretty hard compared to the track where you are trying to squeeze out the last drops of traction mid corner.)

My question really is couldn't the engine power be reduced enough by spark retardation perhaps in combination with fueling, or even nicer by backing off the throttle bodies ? Maybe de-throttling(that a word?) is too slow but I have seen video of those throttle bodies moving from closed->open->closed in the blink of an eye (surely less than a wheel rotation) - that would seem quick enough to me.

Why is it done the way it is ?

P

To wet to ride today? LOL. I can't answer your question for Ducati however on many cars over the years that I have found info from the factory techs stated they just cut spark and fuel to a cylinder thus reducing the HP, reducing the torque curve etc etc, and it works in conjunction with the ABS. I found the DTC on the factory settings, sport and 195Hi, it worked well on my first outing that I noticed how safe it is for the road, (coming from riding non ABS or TC bikes before) I hit a damp white line in the hills on the way to Akaroa, was cranked over with a GSXR1000 up my tail when I felt it start to slide, that moment when your brain says get ready to react!!!!!! It gave me that split second to prepare for the slide that would normally happen when the engine flattened, orange light came up on dash and nothing the bike kept cornering, safely and smoothly, looked in mirror to see a severely crossed up Gixxer, he can ride exceptionally well !!!!! (Rear wheel steers on both road and track) We had a discussion on that moment and he said how did I not have the arse hang out? I put it down to the DTC kicking. It is odd at first and slight distracting however think it is a great safety feature to protect our investments skidding down the Tarmac. I have not noticed engine splutter with DTC kicking in, but then again only just run her in, once the Termis are fitted this week and get mybike back from Casbolts I will see if I get the same issue.

Carl1199 said:

To wet to ride today? LOL. I can't answer your question for Ducati however on many cars over the years that I have found info from the factory techs stated they just cut spark and fuel to a cylinder thus reducing the HP, reducing the torque curve etc etc, and it works in conjunction with the ABS. I found the DTC on the factory settings, sport and 195Hi, it worked well on my first outing that I noticed how safe it is for the road, (coming from riding non ABS or TC bikes before) I hit a damp white line in the hills on the way to Akaroa, was cranked over with a GSXR1000 up my tail when I felt it start to slide, that moment when your brain says get ready to react!!!!!! It gave me that split second to prepare for the slide that would normally happen when the engine flattened, orange light came up on dash and nothing the bike kept cornering, safely and smoothly, looked in mirror to see a severely crossed up Gixxer, he can ride exceptionally well !!!!! (Rear wheel steers on both road and track) We had a discussion on that moment and he said how did I not have the arse hang out? I put it down to the DTC kicking. It is odd at first and slight distracting however think it is a great safety feature to protect our investments skidding down the Tarmac. I have not noticed engine splutter with DTC kicking in, but then again only just run her in, once the Termis are fitted this week and get mybike back from Casbolts I will see if I get the same issue.

Click to expand...

What are you doing with tyres on the painted lines? Actually any painted surface on the road for that matter
Let alone in the wet?
Mate i don't fancy hearing about you being hospitalized.
Stay safe

Cheers

It's all good Brad I appreciate your concern, I don't ride fast enough these days to have that happen, that particular day lapse of concentration, ran slightly wide and hit the white line which the Gixxer was following me and not taking his own line. I tend to ride at the same pace rain or shine, its just sometimes that's the line on the road you have to take to keep it smooth and steady, we have a race here in NZ called the Greymouth Street race (west Coast of the South Island otherwise known as the WET Coast) which consists of numerous white lines and pedestrian crossings which notoriously in the fastest 10 of the day it begins to rain, I was on a GSXR750L on slicks for this race in the 90's which I gambled for the weather, I lost, however finished up 3rd against yes 2 x 916 Ducatis on wets!!!! Slipped , slide my way round and found I was only a few seconds slower in the wet than in the dry, I always rode well in the wet on the track, it's about throttle control and keeping it smooth.
My point is that DTC and ABS makes riding that little bit easier and safer, especially for those who may not have done as many miles as others on big bore bikes and can be caught out with the power the Pani produces. I have been riding road bikes from the day I got my licence at 15 (74 Z900), now 40, before that dirt bikes from about 6 years of age. The Pani is the best handling, most powerful and best stopping bikes ever owned and I am thankful for all the added safety features as it allows you ride the bike without having to really think about what if I hit that white line, if you get my drift, yes still have to think about riding and things come at a quicker rate than other bikes but just nice to have that piece of mind for that potential moment that can happen to us all when least expecting it.

I was under the impression that the first phase of TC is to retard the ignition advance,you loss torque with that, therefore giving the rubber time to regain traction.For road bikes,can't just dump the formerly induced fuel-mass out to the catalytic converter and environment, though some residual HC/fuel do get a 2nd chance to burn at the cat..i don't think it cut ignition...but rather retard its advance...

2nd phase will be shortening of fuel injector pulsewidth or reduce fuel mass, then you still ignite the fuel..with less power...

Carl1199 said:

To wet to ride today? LOL.

Click to expand...

Never to wet to have some fun, but stay safe.

Kiyonari Drift - YouTube

I don't know the DTC strategy of the panigale, but my datalogger show that the THrottlebody's is a part of it. In long corners where the DTC is very active, I noticed that the input from the hand was followed by the throttlebody's to a certain point where they stoped opening despite my hand asked for it

Help me out. What is "Grokking?" Please?

Gunny Fitz said:

Help me out. What is "Grokking?" Please?

Click to expand...

Understanding.

Gunny Fitz said:

Help me out. What is "Grokking?" Please?

Click to expand...

Read Robert Anson Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land", Gunny. In that book, "grokking" has a somewhat deeper meaning than understanding, but that's a serviceable definition for this discussion.

Titaniumvalves said:

I was under the impression that the first phase of TC is to retard the ignition advance,you loss torque with that, therefore giving the rubber time to regain traction.For road bikes,can't just dump the formerly induced fuel-mass out to the catalytic converter and environment, though some residual HC/fuel do get a 2nd chance to burn at the cat..i don't think it cut ignition...but rather retard its advance...

2nd phase will be shortening of fuel injector pulsewidth or reduce fuel mass, then you still ignite the fuel..with less power...

Click to expand...

That's my understanding of it as well. If you're actually feeling a substantial reduction in power then you're into the 2nd phase (cutting fuel) and turning the DTC setting to a lower value will make the reduction less noticeable. I keep mine on level 3 for dry street riding and it seems to work well with either the OE tires or Michelin Power Cups. On the track you can reduce this to level 1 with the Cups or Pirelli SCs in lieu of the OE SPs.

Thanks for the info guys. I'm also trying to sort out why the engine cuts out under hard acceleration. I'll test different DTC settings and hope that will take care of the problem.

Cloner said:

Read Robert Anson Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land", Gunny. In that book, "grokking" has a somewhat deeper meaning than understanding, but that's a serviceable definition for this discussion.

Click to expand...

You're quite right Cloner, ideally I'd like to 'Grok' TC but if the result of this thread is simply a better understanding then yes that's a satisfactory result for today...