Help - Issues with Clutch going soft

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suprajace

Joined
Jun 1, 2021
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Virgina
Any input would be great. I was out on the track yesterday and about mid day (4th session) 5 laps in my clutch went super soft going down the straight. This is the second time this has happened, but not second consecutive time. Spent all day Friday on the track no issues, it was raining so not pushing as hard. Both times this has happened it's after multiple sessions and when it's been relatively hot out and I was pushing the bike hard. Bike is a 2019 V4 S
 
These bikes have a problem with the clutch having to be bled constantly. I changed the clutch line to a fren tubo and slave to an oberon. Haven’t ridden the bike yet I’ll let you know how it works out
 
I used to lose my clutch and require a bleed on a regular basis(on my 1199). I would carry a wrench and rag under my seat. Pulled the bleed valve and added some PTFE tape and has been good ever since. Give that a shot as a cheap fix before replacing lines I suppose.
 
I can't speak specifically for the v4 as I haven't had any issues yet with it.
However I have had several bikes with hydraulic clutches and I recommend not just bleeding , but to flush your clutch aka brake fluid with a high quality "race" fluid. I use Castrol SRF it has not only a high boiling point , but also a high wet boiling point.
If your fluid has any moisture in it once it gets really hot it will boil and create air in it and then you will get a soft clutch ( or brake ).
 
BoostFiend said:
I can't speak specifically for the v4 as I haven't had any issues yet with it.
However I have had several bikes with hydraulic clutches and I recommend not just bleeding , but to flush your clutch aka brake fluid with a high quality "race" fluid. I use Castrol SRF it has not only a high boiling point , but also a high wet boiling point.
If your fluid has any moisture in it once it gets really hot it will boil and create air in it and then you will get a soft clutch ( or brake ).
Click to expand...

I agree. I replace my clutch and brake fluid in all of my motorcycles since the stock stuff is never good. Motul 660 or something similar will really help. Of course, nothing will fix a leaky system other than plugging the leak. My XDiavel had the notorious rear brake line leak (no fluid, just allows air in). Even after a recall line replacement, the rear needs frequent bleeding on that XD. My V2 is doing something similar on the front, but I just swapped out the stock fluid this week, so I will see how it goes.

-0260
 
1. Replace with high boiling point race fluid
2. Buy speed bleeder valves to put in both masters and calipers
3. Bleed more often since it now only takes 30 seconds due to point 2.
4. never have soft hydraulics again, enjoy the consistency
 
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love all the feedback, thanks everyone!! I run both an 1199 and a V4s, but of course the 1199 has an upgraded slave cylinder, so never really experienced a soft or nonexistent clutch. I previously raced Suzuki GSXR, and yes changed the fluid, but no issues beyond that with the clutch. Now that I race Ducati's I just need to figure out all the little quirks....... more maintenance, but in the end fast bikes on the track!
 
brad8266 said:
2. Buy speed bleeder valves to put in both masters and calipers
Click to expand...

I've been considering this. What brand and size did you go with? Stahlbus lists a possible fitment issue for the master cylinders...

1623891171271.png
 
bp_SFV4 said:
I've been considering this. What brand and size did you go with? Stahlbus lists a possible fitment issue for the master cylinders...

View attachment 37919
Click to expand...
Stahlbus, whatever came up for the v4 on motomillion. I can’t remember the size but the called for size fits both masters and the rear caliper. You need smaller ones for the front calipers. No fitting issues for me, they went right on and they work great.
 
I have the Stahlbus speed bleeders. They're quite nice and work flawlessly. Open the valve with an 8mm wrench and pump away without having to close the bleeder. It takes minutes and the clutch is back.
 
RD16RR said:
....but i cannot see how they actually work ?
Click to expand...

because they probably don’t, just like half the .... on these bikes.

Personally I wouldn’t put my trust in Ducati hydraulics to work when I need it most as I found out in the pit at track day last month when I lost my clutch. Speed bleed every track day now to run some clean fluid through.
 
The 2021+ are suppose to have the self bleeding master cylinders, called pumps in Ducati parlance, but I can't tell a difference. I've bled my last 3 Ducati bikes, I'll be doing the same to this one after I flush some 660 through it.

@The Avidmoto how do you know when the air is out?
 
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the v4 has shown promise (to me at least...so far), unlike all my previous ducs, which needed a quick bleed just before leaving for a ride - after a few rides on the v4, i did do 1 or 2 quick bleeds at the clutch master, and that always works as it should - last few rides however, it didn't need it...i checked it after a ride and it felt "soft", as in the lever came back maybe a 1/2 to 3/4" (?) but figured to bleed it before the next ride - left it alone, and checked the following day...no more gap, lever felt fine - right now, i'm just curious how it supposed to work - does it rely on any pumping action, or is gravity in charge

over the years and a number of 916 variants all the way to a 2013 & 2015 1199r & 2017 1299 i've bled them all...while i did replace the clutch master on a 999r (had no effect) , i skipped all the other suggestions - wrapping the clutch line, changing the slave, adding a spacer etc

a friend just changed the slave cylinder on his 2013 1199r (oberon) - 300+ miles on it and it is spot on perfect - he was typically bleeding it after each ride as well before the slave cylinder swap
 
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I would agree with RD16RR. This is about the 15th clutch bleed thread. There is obviously a mechanical issue with the OEM stuff. Its a simple hydraulic system. How is this even an issue on a 30K vehicle. We hear similar issues with brake components Do you find it acceptable to get the bleeder out every time you jump in the Mercedes to go to the store? This is just comicle at this point that one, this is acceptable and two, the solution is to replace the parts because the manufacturer supplied you with substandard components but that is unfortunately, the solution.
 
endodoc said:
I would agree with RD16RR. This is about the 15th clutch bleed thread. There is obviously a mechanical issue with the OEM stuff. Its a simple hydraulic system. How is this even an issue on a 30K vehicle. We hear similar issues with brake components Do you find it acceptable to get the bleeder out every time you jump in the Mercedes to go to the store? This is just comicle at this point that one, this is acceptable and two, the solution is to replace the parts because the manufacturer supplied you with substandard components but that is unfortunately, the solution.
Click to expand...

....but what do we know about how the "new & improved" self bleeder works....(other than, it probably doesn't?)
 
RD16RR said:
a friend just changed the slave cylinder on his 2013 1199r (oberon) - 300+ miles on it and it is spot on perfect - he was typically bleeding it after each ride as well before the slave cylinder swap
Click to expand...

My 2019 V4 Panigale’s clutch worked well up to 7000 kilometers, then started to get air into the circuit. I changed the fluids to Motul 660 but didn’t help at all. Drove another 10 000 km, doing bleeds every few hundred km. Then swapped the slave cylinder to Oberon and the problem went completely away. I haven’t had to bleed even once after that.

I discussed this with a Ducati mechanic, and he said the engine heat kills the slave. Especially track days on hot weather. Showed few replacment slave cylinders on the table waiting to get replaced to bikes that had clutch issues.

Oberon has done now 4 track days and few thousand kilometers on street and so far so good. Might be more lasting construction than original. But original also worked the first 7000 km.
 

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