Here comes the reality of success

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They should all be shitting their pants, the top speed of the Ducs reminds me of Stoner's championship year with Ducati, when he could blow by everyone on the straits. Mabey everyone else needs to go desmo and .... can those pneumatic valetrains
 
That's not why the top speed is so high. Particularly at Qatar. The factory teams have to run very aggressive fuel management strategies to make race distance there. The Ducati's can be more liberal and use more of the power, more of the time. The official traps actually had the Honda's fastest for a single lap, but they can't do that every lap of the race without running out of gas.
 
Yea yea but, conventiol valve springs, and pnuemo systems cost more to run from an energy standpoint than a desmo system, nothing is free but the demodromic system is more efficient.
 
Stw said:
Valentino Rossi speaks on 'unfair' Ducati rules | FOX Sports
Click to expand...

It could also be considered unfair to ask other factories to compete at the same level as only Honda and Yamaha can with that biased rules package. That rules package favored those factories who already have a competitive, refined package. 5 engines, 20L - Honda and Yamaha didn't get there all at once either. It took a few years, with those numbers arrived at by slow degrees. 24L to 22L to 21L to 20L. These rules favor the factories with the largest budgets and most engineers.

What's good for the class is more bikes capable of being competitive. For the last few years we've all known full well the only rider would would win a race, let alone a championship, was on one of four bikes. Those bikes rarely change hands. 1 Honda has had the same rider for 10 years. This is JLo's 8th season on a factory bike. Barring 2 years at Ducati, the other Yamaha has been Rossi's since 2004. The "championship" seat at Honda has only been held by Hayden, Dovi, Stoner and Marquez over the past 10 years. Young talent has nowhere to go to truly compete for wins and a championship. The increasingly strict rules have kept other manufacturers out because it simply costs too much to complete at that level.

The rules were written that way due to Honda influence because it gives them a technical edge - they are the ones best positioned, with the most money and engineering talent, to succeed under those restrictions. Yamaha is very close as well. What we see now is an attempt to reverse the rules package to get more players in the game.
 
ghostdog6 said:
It could also be considered unfair to ask other factories to compete at the same level as only Honda and Yamaha can with that biased rules package. That rules package favored those factories who already have a competitive, refined package. 5 engines, 20L - Honda and Yamaha didn't get there all at once either. It took a few years, with those numbers arrived at by slow degrees. 24L to 22L to 21L to 20L. These rules favor the factories with the largest budgets and most engineers.

What's good for the class is more bikes capable of being competitive. For the last few years we've all known full well the only rider would would win a race, let alone a championship, was on one of four bikes. Those bikes rarely change hands. 1 Honda has had the same rider for 10 years. This is JLo's 8th season on a factory bike. Barring 2 years at Ducati, the other Yamaha has been Rossi's since 2004. The "championship" seat at Honda has only been held by Hayden, Dovi, Stoner and Marquez over the past 10 years. Young talent has nowhere to go to truly compete for wins and a championship. The increasingly strict rules have kept other manufacturers out because it simply costs too much to complete at that level.

The rules were written that way due to Honda influence because it gives them a technical edge - they are the ones best positioned, with the most money and engineering talent, to succeed under those restrictions. Yamaha is very close as well. What we see now is an attempt to reverse the rules package to get more players in the game.
Click to expand...

Ducati has had the same amount of time as Honda & Yamaha to develop engines that meet the fuel requirements. Honda & Yamaha might do a better job at it, but it's not because they've had more time.

I don't know how one can celebrate success if they are given a head start. Win under the same rules as Honda and Yamaha and you can throw the win in their face. Winning under an easier set of rules is not impressive. Is there anyone that thinks the GP15 can't compete under the same rules as Honda and Yamaha?
 
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Eleven 99 said:
Ducati has had the same amount of time as Honda & Yamaha to develop engines that meet the fuel requirements. Honda & Yamaha might do a better job at it, but it's not because they've had more time.
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Same amount of time, but with less resources - both $$$ and talent. The main reason Ducati decided to go open was to eliminate the engine freeze that comes with the factory designation. They new they had a problem with engine design and power delivery, and an engine freeze prevented them from working on that. You've got to remember that Preziosi, for all his brilliance, didn't really understand what a rider needed in an engine. His philosophy was a bucketload of HP and let the rider learn how to manage it. Ducati's problem, sure, and one of their own invention, but without that move they were looking at another couple years at best to get things right. Phillip Morris wouldn't have waited that long, and if they cancel their sponsorship, Ducati is out of GP.

Remember that Dorna's ultimate goal is to get back to a unified set of rules, with a spec ECU and software. So ostensibly Ducati's defection to the Open class was exactly what they wanted. One down, two to go. And as part of that compromise to get Ducati back to a factory status we see the unified rules implemented a year earlier, in 2016, than was originally planned.
 
shakazulu12 said:
That's not why the top speed is so high. Particularly at Qatar. The factory teams have to run very aggressive fuel management strategies to make race distance there. The Ducati's can be more liberal and use more of the power, more of the time. The official traps actually had the Honda's fastest for a single lap, but they can't do that every lap of the race without running out of gas.
Click to expand...

thats correct MM had the fastest flat out speed of 217.66 which was the fastest ever recorded speed in moto gp according to motogp twitter page
 
Eleven 99 said:
I don't know how one can celebrate success if they are given a head start. Win under the same rules as Honda and Yamaha and you can throw the win in their face. Winning under an easier set of rules is not impressive. Is there anyone that thinks the GP15 can't compete under the same rules as Honda and Yamaha?
Click to expand...

Both Honda and Yamaha had the option to go Open, just like Ducati, but felt at the time that it was advantageous to remain under Factory rules. Additionally, I'm not certain this can be considered an easier set of rules considering both Honda and Yamaha are allowed to utilize far more sophisticated and flexible software. The fact that Ducati may already be capable of competing with the two Japanese giants while running a spec ECU is extremely impressive.
 
Personally I think Honda balked at Ducati going open because they didn't want the transparency of how much time their custom software is worth. After all, if the Duc were .2 - .3 slower with the open software as opposed to their own stuff, all Honda's chest-thumping about how it is imperative that they be able to develop their own software starts to seem a bit silly. Now, everyone one goes to the open software at the same time they go to new tires, rendering any comparisons irrelevant. Coincidence? I don't think so.
 
Just sayin

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stoner-marlboro.jpg
 

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