Honda CBR1000RR-R SP 2024 vs V4R 2023

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Meh. Chain/sprocket weight differences are marginal and the effect you feel is most likely placebo. 2-3 lbs of rotational weight that centered close to the axle isn't going to make a noticeable difference. Has anyone done a 525 to 520 conversion and not changed gearing at the same time? And then has anyone got real world data that shows a significant decrease in lap times? Because if you haven't then you're talking out your butthole just as much as I am

No one needs to convince you. You just do you and the rest will do better. It’s just physics, why argue with facts unless you know better physics? Maybe that’s you, knowing better than the actual facts? I don’t know, sounds like …
 
Meh. Chain/sprocket weight differences are marginal and the effect you feel is most likely placebo. 2-3 lbs of rotational weight that centered close to the axle isn't going to make a noticeable difference. Has anyone done a 525 to 520 conversion and not changed gearing at the same time? And then has anyone got real world data that shows a significant decrease in lap times? Because if you haven't then you're talking out your butthole just as much as I am

Yes I’ve changed to 520 without changing gearing. And with all due respect your OPINION with no direct experience that 2-3 pounds of rotating mass reduction makes no difference is just that, an un-experienced opinion, I have direct personal experience with doing so. 2 to 3 lbs IS noticeable.

Also, between rotors, wheels, chains, Sprocket carriers, wheel nuts, titanium axles, titanium hardware through the entire wheel and rotating brake assemblies I removed 12 to 15 pounds of rotating mass off my last V4…that was a night and day difference in bike feel.

Now you next argument will be ‘maybe 12 to 15 pounds makes a difference but not 2-3 pounds’, but then you will argue against each of the mods that in aggregate get you to 15 pounds saying each one makes no difference. 😂😂😂

And then you next argument after that will be “but that 15 pounds doesn’t make you faster”

Which we’ve already established is a really stupid argument to make for any riders at our levels, because NO MODS make riders at our levels faster.

Certain mods can make the bike FEEL a lot better though…and after ergos and a correct suspension tune…reducing rotational mass is at the very top of THAT list.

Also, while reduced rotational mass may not make your fastest lap time much faster, it certainly makes the average lap times of your last two sessions of the day faster, because 15 pounds of reduced rotating mass feels like at least 50 pounds of reduced gyroscopic forces that you are fighting against every time you flip the bike from side to said on every corner for the whole day, so by the end of the day you’ve worked way less hard.
 
You do realise that 525 chain and the associated sprockets are more expensive than 520, if Ducati was a penny pinching brand they would put 520 on all their street bikes but they dont. My multi runs 530, and its underpowered enough to handle a 520 no problems so arguments for 520 based on anything other than a slight performance boost for race bikes kind of missing the point. Moreover the only reason there 520 is practical for the street on high powered bikes is the improvement in metallurgy on both chain and sprockets that prevents the drive train from getting stretched, worn out and replaced every 5 minutes like they used to in the bad old days
 
Yes I’ve changed to 520 without changing gearing. And with all due respect your OPINION with no direct experience that 2-3 pounds of rotating mass reduction makes no difference is just that, an un-experienced opinion, I have direct personal experience with doing so. 2 to 3 lbs IS noticeable.

Also, between rotors, wheels, chains, Sprocket carriers, wheel nuts, titanium axles, titanium hardware through the entire wheel and rotating brake assemblies I removed 12 to 15 pounds of rotating mass off my last V4…that was a night and day difference in bike feel.

Now you next argument will be ‘maybe 12 to 15 pounds makes a difference but not 2-3 pounds’, but then you will argue against each of the mods that in aggregate get you to 15 pounds saying each one makes no difference. 😂😂😂

And then you next argument after that will be “but that 15 pounds doesn’t make you faster”

Which we’ve already established is a really stupid argument to make for any riders at our levels, because NO MODS make riders at our levels faster.

Certain mods can make the bike FEEL a lot better though…and after ergos and a correct suspension tune…reducing rotational mass is at the very top of THAT list.

Also, while reduced rotational mass may not make your fastest lap time much faster, it certainly makes the average lap times of your last two sessions of the day faster, because 15 pounds of reduced rotating mass feels like at least 50 pounds of reduced gyroscopic forces that you are fighting against every time you flip the bike from side to said on every corner for the whole day, so by the end of the day you’ve worked way less hard.

Are you saying you can drop 2-3 lbs between a 525 and 520 steel rear sprocket??? It’s not even close but I know the answer. Hint: The difference between a 525 and 520 sprocket is 1.6 mm. Bp or SBK can help calculate out the actual difference using volume and density with his stellar grasp of physics and Excel. No helping bagger
 
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So into the weeds at this point.

A 525 made to a price point could very well be a better choice than a 520 at the same price point.

But, a 520 spec that reaches higher and costs more, could very easily be lighter, stronger and subjectively better than a price point pick OEM 525.

Let's not consider vendor and manufacturer agreements. The people who decide what chain is on your bike are operating at a position of information superiority. Even if they, or if their decisions are wrong, those decisions were taken with more information than anyone here has.

Log off and ride it.
 
Yes I’ve changed to 520 without changing gearing. And with all due respect your OPINION with no direct experience that 2-3 pounds of rotating mass reduction makes no difference is just that, an un-experienced opinion, I have direct personal experience with doing so. 2 to 3 lbs IS noticeable.

Also, between rotors, wheels, chains, Sprocket carriers, wheel nuts, titanium axles, titanium hardware through the entire wheel and rotating brake assemblies I removed 12 to 15 pounds of rotating mass off my last V4…that was a night and day difference in bike feel.

Now you next argument will be ‘maybe 12 to 15 pounds makes a difference but not 2-3 pounds’, but then you will argue against each of the mods that in aggregate get you to 15 pounds saying each one makes no difference. 😂😂😂

And then you next argument after that will be “but that 15 pounds doesn’t make you faster”

Which we’ve already established is a really stupid argument to make for any riders at our levels, because NO MODS make riders at our levels faster.

Certain mods can make the bike FEEL a lot better though…and after ergos and a correct suspension tune…reducing rotational mass is at the very top of THAT list.

Also, while reduced rotational mass may not make your fastest lap time much faster, it certainly makes the average lap times of your last two sessions of the day faster, because 15 pounds of reduced rotating mass feels like at least 50 pounds of reduced gyroscopic forces that you are fighting against every time you flip the bike from side to said on every corner for the whole day, so by the end of the day you’ve worked way less hard.

Ive never found it to be hard work, sure I notice the difference between lightweight wheels and clunkers but its meh in reality unless you really want to win the trackday! Heavier wheels provide great directional stability and tbh when I go between various bikes I am always surprised by how much I dont really care about rotating mass etc as long as the whole package works. So what if I have to brake a bit earlier or its a fraction slower accelerating? Just pretend youre on a sports bike from the double O's and youre golden 😃
 
Are you saying you can drop 15 lbs between a 525 and 520 steel rear sprocket??? It’s probably more like 1 lb, if that. The difference between a 525 and 520 sprocket is 1.6 mm. Bp or SBK can help calculate out the actual difference using volume and density with his stellar grasp of physics and Excel.

Its always good to play the greatest hits from time to time

520 vs 525
Dry clutch vs wet
300v vs everything else
Carbon wheels vs metal
Modded Base vs R
SD vs Andy

am I missing anything?
 
You know what’s an even more interesting thing is the weight difference between a 200/65 slick and a 200/60 DOT… That extra pound of weight is at the very furthest from the axle and has the most influence. That’s the weight you should be worrying about when it comes to rotational mass. If you don’t need to run 65 aspect slick, it’s not worth it for handling unless your 10/10ths
 
Still talking about 525 vs 520? And now 200/65 vs 200/60? I can guess why. :rolleyes:🫣

Anyway, if I get time today then I’ll go and have a look at the Fireblade.
 
Are you saying you can drop 2-3 lbs between a 525 and 520 steel rear sprocket??? It’s not even close but I know the answer. Hint: The difference between a 525 and 520 sprocket is 1.6 mm. Bp or SBK can help calculate out the actual difference using volume and density with his stellar grasp of physics and Excel. No helping bagger

Well SD, you can actually measure with your very own scale 2 lbs difference in a 525 w/steel sprocket and a 520 setup with aluminum sprocket. More or less depending on your choice of brand/components. I really like the 3D530GP chain as I run it on all my bikes. So, indeed the physics shows the difference, but since you’re smarter than that, just do it instead of talking about it and measure with your own scale. I’m sure you have one, you know, with all your vanity projections.
 
You do realise that 525 chain and the associated sprockets are more expensive than 520, if Ducati was a penny pinching brand they would put 520 on all their street bikes but they dont. My multi runs 530, and its underpowered enough to handle a 520 no problems so arguments for 520 based on anything other than a slight performance boost for race bikes kind of missing the point. Moreover the only reason there 520 is practical for the street on high powered bikes is the improvement in metallurgy on both chain and sprockets that prevents the drive train from getting stretched, worn out and replaced every 5 minutes like they used to in the bad old days

If I had a Multi or even a basic standard bike I would swap to a 520 simply because I’ve done it, felt the results, and have thousands of miles of experience on the bike(s) with it. I don’t see/“feel”/experience any negatives AT ALL.
 
Why bother? 530 chain is approximately 50% wider than 520, that's bearing surface which takes the load. 530 is specified for durability, it's not required for tensile strength which is all to do with the metallurgy and the width of the side plates. No one is arguing that there isn't an improvement in performance by going to a smaller chain, but the point is that the gains are marginal and for a street bike the trade-off is increased wear.
 
Yes I’ve changed to 520 without changing gearing. And with all due respect your OPINION with no direct experience that 2-3 pounds of rotating mass reduction makes no difference is just that, an un-experienced opinion, I have direct personal experience with doing so. 2 to 3 lbs IS noticeable.

Also, between rotors, wheels, chains, Sprocket carriers, wheel nuts, titanium axles, titanium hardware through the entire wheel and rotating brake assemblies I removed 12 to 15 pounds of rotating mass off my last V4…that was a night and day difference in bike feel.

Now you next argument will be ‘maybe 12 to 15 pounds makes a difference but not 2-3 pounds’, but then you will argue against each of the mods that in aggregate get you to 15 pounds saying each one makes no difference. 😂😂😂

And then you next argument after that will be “but that 15 pounds doesn’t make you faster”

Which we’ve already established is a really stupid argument to make for any riders at our levels, because NO MODS make riders at our levels faster.

Certain mods can make the bike FEEL a lot better though…and after ergos and a correct suspension tune…reducing rotational mass is at the very top of THAT list.

Also, while reduced rotational mass may not make your fastest lap time much faster, it certainly makes the average lap times of your last two sessions of the day faster, because 15 pounds of reduced rotating mass feels like at least 50 pounds of reduced gyroscopic forces that you are fighting against every time you flip the bike from side to said on every corner for the whole day, so by the end of the day you’ve worked way less hard.

I so agree weight is the enemy. Less weight equals more stick, higher corner speed let alone all the other advantages.
 
Why bother? 530 chain is approximately 50% wider than 520, that's bearing surface which takes the load. 530 is specified for durability, it's not required for tensile strength which is all to do with the metallurgy and the width of the side plates. No one is arguing that there isn't an improvement in performance by going to a smaller chain, but the point is that the gains are marginal and for a street bike the trade-off is increased wear.

Why bother?

Why do you ride a motorcycle?

They’re not better than a car in any measurable area other than outright acceleration. They're way slower than a comparable performance car around corners or lap times. They’re much more dangerous; a crash on a motorcycle is many times more likely to result in serious injury including crippling and deadly injuries; insurance is more than almost all commuter cars, they’re terribly expensive for what you get, there’s a literal plethora of reasons NOT to ride motorcycles and yet here you are.

A 520 chain/sprockets are less than gas/food money for a track day or a decent day ride. You really need to think this through, or just stop.
 
BTW at some point i've measured (plates, pins) a stock Ducati 525. A 520 DID zvmx is stronger than a stock ducati 525. I do run 525's on the bikes I travel on, I'm lazy, so I pretty much ignore them until the loose versus tight part of the chain makes it unservicable. 520 everything else.
 
BTW at some point i've measured (plates, pins) a stock Ducati 525. A 520 DID zvmx is stronger than a stock ducati 525. I do run 525's on the bikes I travel on, I'm lazy, so I pretty much ignore them until the loose versus tight part of the chain makes it unservicable. 520 everything else.
“Here’s a thing… hold a match between your thumb and forefinger then try to dnap it in the middle
Now hold half the match same way and try to snap that!

520 narrow match stronger than a 525 full match!”
 
Why bother?

Why do you ride a motorcycle?

They’re not better than a car in any measurable area other than outright acceleration. They're way slower than a comparable performance car around corners or lap times. They’re much more dangerous; a crash on a motorcycle is many times more likely to result in serious injury including crippling and deadly injuries; insurance is more than almost all commuter cars, they’re terribly expensive for what you get, there’s a literal plethora of reasons NOT to ride motorcycles and yet here you are.

A 520 chain/sprockets are less than gas/food money for a track day or a decent day ride. You really need to think this through, or just stop.
I'm talking about the very marginal gains for going down a size or two of chain, you are going on about .... knows what?

This is well thrashed out common knowledge, there are tiny gains to be made and when time comes to replace a 525 setup why not go 520 but there is no reason to rush out and do it. A 520 drive will wear out faster than 530 or 525, that is a fact so pay your money and make your choices

Does A 520 Chain Conversion Increase Horsepower?

For better or worse, tall tales and inflated stories follow the streetbike scene like white on rice. When we repeatedly heard of 10 HP gains from a 520-chain swap we decided to investigate the claims.
For those unaware, street bike chains come in many forms; from different sizes to O-ring or non O-ring designs. Most bikes are equipped with a 525 chain, and as the displacement and power increases so does the chain size, eventually reaching a 530. As designs go, non O-ring chains tend to be more efficient, but don’t last as long since the lack of rubber rings increases wear. As a result, most streetbikes use O-ring chains for longevity’s sake while race bikes and dirt bikes trade durability for maximum power.
As chain technology has progressed so has the strength of the metal ropes, and in recent years racers and street riders have discovered that even larger bikes equipped with a hefty 530 chain from the factory can safely swap to a lighter 520 setup. Swapping to the smaller, narrower combo not only drops weight, but the lack of material also cuts down on friction and increases power—so the myth goes.
The test
Since exactness had to be a priority we ensured that all dyno runs were made on the same dyno over the course of roughly 45 minutes. In addition to dyno pulls at normal oil and coolant operating temperatures, we also took the average of three timed fourth gear acceleration runs from 25-125 MPH.
A Kawasaki Ninja 1000 was brought up to temp and then run through the aforementioned tests. After the baseline numbers were determined we left the bike strapped on the dyno and replaced the OEM equipment with the RK 520 GXW chain and Vortex CAT5 sprockets. To keep the results as accurate as possible the gearing remained the same (15/41) since a smaller or larger sprocket creates more or less chain wrap, thus altering the numbers due to frictional changes.
In addition to the dyno and acceleration tests, all stock and aftermarket components were weighed on the same scale.
**
MYTH: CONFIRMED

**
When the smoke cleared and the averages were calculated, the Ninja 1000 gained 1.5 HP and 1.4 LB-FT at the rear wheel and knocked off .05 seconds in the 25-125 MPH fourth gear dyno acceleration test.
Although the increases were small, it’s proof that a 520 conversion—without changing the gearing—does improve performance. The dyno results and acceleration tests were consistently better than the stock setup, and the 1.8-pound weight savings is a plus. In addition to the increased performance, the aesthetical improvements are reason enough to make the swap.
Only you can be the judge if such a setup is in your future, but we can safely say a 520 conversion is a beneficial mod. In reality we wouldn’t waste a perfectly good stock chain and sprockets. Instead use your current combo until it’s worn out, then make the change. As for the claims of 10 HP or more, leave those for the bench racers–a 520 conversion won’t drastically alter performance, but every little bit helps.
Average horsepower and torque over three runs
Stock: 118.2 HP/70.5 LB-FT
520 Conversion: 119.7 HP/71.9 LB-FT
Average time for fourth gear 25-125 MPH acceleration test **
**Stock: 5.2 seconds
520 Conversion: 5.15 seconds
Stock component weights **
**530 Chain: 4.8 pounds
Countershaft sprocket: 0.50 pounds
Rear sprocket: 1.8 pounds
Total: 7.1 pounds
RK and Vortex component weights **
**520 Chain: 4.1 pounds
Countershaft sprocket: 0.4 pounds
Rear sprocket: 0.8 pounds
Total: 5.3 pounds
1.8 Total Pounds Saved.


and that's going from a 530 chain to a 520....not like for most people here going from a 525 to a 520 its not as big a difference because your not getting rid as much weight in the chain..you'll lose most your weight in the rear sprocket

so for all you people thinking about a 520 conversion here's some food for thought

i have street bike so 0.05 of a second actually would less more like 0.04 0r 0.035 of second isn't worth it for me

maybe for a race bike.....but you'd probably be better on perfecting technique or wasting money on racing school ..to gain better time increments.............. we all know one of those guy on slower bike that can just wring every bit horse power out of a bike and has great technique and waxes people just on skill just my 2 cent
 

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