They could be long ones…
Honda CBR1000RR-R SP 2024 vs V4R 2023
- Thread starter panibadboy
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Going off-topic, I was surprised to see that the new Aprilia RSV4 is using Ohlins EC2 instead of EC3, despite being fitted with the latest Hypure calipers. It seems an odd choice.
I’m still undecided on getting the new V4S, stick with the R or have a change and go for the Honda, but I’m leaning very heavily toward the Honda. If I go that way then it’s either going for the base and building up a pretty cool track bike or just get the SP, put some forged wheels on and enjoy it as it is, as I’m sure it’s more than enough. The SP is probably the better option.
The V4S would be an easy choice as well. With what I’m hearing about Ohlins EC3, I don’t think the accepted idea of getting the base and upgrading is necessarily still the best way to go, unless you want to go down the bottomless pit route. Obviously I’ve only sat on the Ducati, but I reckon they’ve done an awesome job and having improved data integrated into the dash with WiFi connection would be very convenient.
For some reason, BMW doesn’t interest me at all. I was told that the Honda is great on entry and the engine and quality are awesome but I was also pushed toward the Yamaha GYTR and told that it makes up a lot of it on exit drive. The GYTR is still a pretty nice setup for the money. I reckon I’d wish I’d gone Ducati or Honda if I got a Yamaha, although the R1 is by far the most popular option at track days, with plenty of GYTR being used.
At this stage I’m likely to give Honda a try, but the V4S is still in with a shout. Worst case scenario is that I stick with my R for the coming season, which is not the worst of worst case scenarios - I love that bike, but I’d want to get the RADE Garage tank - having sat on a V4 with that tank and also the new V4S, the narrower tank definitely makes a positive difference. That would mean sinking more money into the R, which isn’t my preferred option.
Regardless, I’m looking forward to getting past winter and back on track rather than talking about it. Winter sucks.
Upgrading the base will still save you money over a V4S. A set of Ohlins FGRT 214/231 forks with custom valving and a TTX will run you about $3500, and it’ll be WORLDS better than the factory Ohlins on a V4S. Grab a set of forged wheels and you’ll still be ahead.
Ohlins EC3 is apparently very good.
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It’s actually a misnomer saying the HRC kit and software is the WSBK stuff…most of those teams use Motec or magneti-marrelli?….both of which are extremely complicated. The HRC stuff is SUPPOSEDLY much more ergonomic to use, more self explanatory with fairly intuitive screens to navigate…we’ll see though. It translates from Japanese in interesting ways…for example there is a screen dedicated to “anti-jerk” that’s just managing throttle sensitivity by RPM and gear to make the throttle response more or less twitchy.
Pretty cool that you can do that though BY GEAR. So you can smooth the throttle in 2nd gear for pulling out of a corner and make it more aggressive in 4 through 5 etc…and you can manage slip control by corner segment…so corner entry, mid-corner, and corner exit slip can all be managed etc.
The screenshots of it do not look like hieroglyphs like the Motec stuff.
The guy who talked me into getting the Fireblade has the settings that some of the MotoAmerica teams were using for all that stuff in the vids.
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Going off-topic, I was surprised to see that the new Aprilia RSV4 is using Ohlins EC2 instead of EC3, despite being fitted with the latest Hypure calipers. It seems an odd choice.
I’m still undecided on getting the new V4S, stick with the R or have a change and go for the Honda, but I’m leaning very heavily toward the Honda. If I go that way then it’s either going for the base and building up a pretty cool track bike or just get the SP, put some forged wheels on and enjoy it as it is, as I’m sure it’s more than enough. The SP is probably the better option.
The V4S would be an easy choice as well. With what I’m hearing about Ohlins EC3, I don’t think the accepted idea of getting the base and upgrading is necessarily still the best way to go, unless you want to go down the bottomless pit route. Obviously I’ve only sat on the Ducati, but I reckon they’ve done an awesome job and having improved data integrated into the dash with WiFi connection would be very convenient.
For some reason, BMW doesn’t interest me at all. I was told that the Honda is great on entry and the engine and quality are awesome but I was also pushed toward the Yamaha GYTR and told that it makes up a lot of it on exit drive. The GYTR is still a pretty nice setup for the money. I reckon I’d wish I’d gone Ducati or Honda if I got a Yamaha, although the R1 is by far the most popular option at track days, with plenty of GYTR being used.
At this stage I’m likely to give Honda a try, but the V4S is still in with a shout. Worst case scenario is that I stick with my R for the coming season, which is not the worst of worst case scenarios - I love that bike, but I’d want to get the RADE Garage tank - having sat on a V4 with that tank and also the new V4S, the narrower tank definitely makes a positive difference. That would mean sinking more money into the R, which isn’t my preferred option.
Regardless, I’m looking forward to getting past winter and back on track rather than talking about it. Winter sucks.
I think if I were in your shoes, and knowing you just a bit through the forum, I’d do the V4S if I were you.
I’m only saying that because Ducati can only be improved marginally over what they give you if you do the full spend on the bike in their configurator…but what you get at full cost is an AMAZING motorcycle that out of the box (with the exhaust and $800 software) is going to turn crazy lap times and be very easy to ride fast.
The Honda is very close to what you get with the V4S out of the box sans better wheels. But for a much lower price tag, so certainly more bang for the buck but also just a bit behind what Ducati is selling in terms of technology.
That 70 virtual sensor thing and the auto rear brake are incredibly cool technologies. Better that what Honda or anyone else is offering.
BUT….after you’ve maxed out the bike configurator the Ducati has no where to go from there, it’s tapped out…but tapped out at an extremely high level track day bike, maybe the best. Whereas the HRC can be cheaply modded with factory quality HRC stuff to perform at the highest level you can go…
I don’t see you as a mod and tuning guy, more of a make it work and be faster than me guy. The Ducati is exactly that…and while the Honda is MADE to be modified cheaply to a higher performing bike than the Ducati it does have to be modified to get well above the Ducati’s performance off the shelf with all the expensive over priced bells and whistles.
If budget doesn’t matter and you want a crazy good bike without doing much too it that new Ducati is the way to go. If you want the best available ultimate level of performance available and at very fair pricing then it’s the Honda, but with a few minor asterics.
Style of riding comes into play too…the Fireblade has a better chassis and swingarm…so it’s going to be more stable on heaving braking and corner turn in…and on the straights it’s a missile.
The Ducati is going to be okay on corner entry and okay mid-corner but coming off an apex in the drive out of corner exits it’s going to be unbeatable. On the straights and HRC prepped Fireblade might edge out the Ducati. Has more high end power.
So one thing to consider is you style of riding…are you a hard braking corner entry guy, or a launch it on corner exit with early hard throttle guy.
Hard braking and corner entry and problem mid corner goes to Honda, aggressive corner exit goes to Ducati…call the drag race on the straights even.
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I will pay money to subscribe if you do some vlogs of you running midpack at your “races”
Riding style - not sure I have one.
Let's say smooth and mechanically sympathetic. 
At my level, and whatever level I can get to, I don’t think either bike would be the deciding factor in terms of lap times, unless one was significantly harder to ride than the other. This season I need to improve corner entry speed and take advantage of the extra 10 degrees of lean angle that I’ve now got from improved technique. Maybe the Honda might help with feel for doing this but I don’t believe either bike would be a limiting factor.
There’s an approximate 8,000 Euros difference between the SP and the V4S - reduce that by the cost of forged wheels for the Honda and the difference is probably just over 5,500 Euros. It’s not a vast amount of money but it's a not insignificant difference in cost. I’ve just dumped a very significant amount of cash into a house and I like having a healthy buffer, so cost should come into it a bit compared to this year with the R and various modifications (mostly for my own fun). I'd want data but it's cheaper to add it to the Honda than to get the Ducati DDL, although having that integrated so well with the Ducati is nice.
With both bikes I’d want to remove the road stuff and change rearsets (aftermarket), so no particular difference there. I guess I could probably use the clip-ons from my R and maybe the Jetprime switches (not sure about that) if I wanted to.
I've got a bit of a problem in principle with where the cost is getting to when you start speccing the Ducati (mostly due to the exhaust cost). Initially I could just run stock on either bike and see how I go. I changed the exhaust before primarily to lose weight.
So, with my sensible head on, the Honda makes a lot of sense financially, but there's a lot to like about the Ducati and the difference in cost isn't the end of the world if I stick with the stock exhaust. If I want to add even the cheaper exhaust then it starts to get a bit harder to justify the additional cost.
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THE HONDA CBR 1000RRR HAS A MASSIVE HEAT PROBLEM. NON FIXABLE
Not sure what you are talking about. The previous model had an issue that was resolved by recall and all future bikes have this taken care of as far as I am aware.
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I know a guy that has 3 of them and tracks them all and specifically said they handle heat better than most bikes in its class.
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**Laughs in Ducati**
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Again, this has nothing to do with the quality or level of the CBR1000RR SP. The Rune as an exercise in manufacturing expertise was unmatched, it failed in the market for many reasons but this happens to any manufacturer. We are not discussing product ideas or the marketing department, as for MotoGP at the last round they are .83 of a second off the fastest bike ever on pole, so not slow and their tech is not relevant to road (advanced aero, ride height devices, making this years rear Michelin work etc)
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