Lightning

So that’s happening as fast as it is in the car world now.

Yep. That's next. It'll be different, better in someways and not in other ways.
Most of what let's say, "scares" me is not the changing tech, but the amount of control and loss of liberty we are facing. Rolling in with new tech is new legislation such as what's on the table in the EU with 'all vehicles should have automatic speed limiters to whatever the speed limit is where you are.' So I hope you like 35MPH. Entirely possible with gas engines with an ECU right now, but they usually implement these big ...... things in manufacturing with new tech. Unless we fight it, it'll be what's for diner. It's not about electric motors it's about legislation.

That video is 9 years old

endodoc said:

That video is 9 years old

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Yep. 9 year old video and look where Lightning is now. Basically Vaporware, the bikes they have made are extremely poorly constructed and can barely go 80mph.

I will say this. Look at the lap times in motogp, wsbk, moto2, etc. compare 2015 with 2021. Now compare the lap times of the electric bikes. The electric bikes are making significant jumps. All of the tech today is going into electric vehicles and battery tech. The stuff these guys are doing with bikes, scooters and boards is phenomenal from a growth perspective. It’s only a matter of time. No radiators, no exhaust, no transmission, no volatile fuel, regenerative braking, endless torque and power transfer control, dramatic reduction in wearable parts, zero emissions, fully enclosed frontal area dramatically reducing drag. It’s coming.

I think they're breaking 200MPH when they want to. I've been chatting up the founder on Linkedin as we had some connections. It seems they made some progress recently that's fairly significant.
Regardless, +1 on what endodoc said.
You will be assimilated, resistance is futile.


Lightning Motorcycles
https://lightningmotorcycle.com
In 2011, Lightning set the land speed record at 215.960 mph(top speed of 218.637 mph) and became the world fastest production electric motorcycle. Next Lightning integrated the race proven technologies into their customer products - the Lightning LS-218 in 2015 and the Lightning Strike in 2019 which were well received by the market.

MaverickiB said:

Yep. 9 year old video and look where Lightning is now. Basically Vaporware, the bikes they have made are extremely poorly constructed and can barely go 80mph.

Click to expand...

Vbreeze said:

I think they're breaking 200MPH when they want to. I've been chatting up the founder on Linkedin as we had some connections. It seems they made some progress recently that's fairly significant.
Regardless, +1 on what endodoc said.
You will be assimilated, resistance is futile.


Lightning Motorcycles
https://lightningmotorcycle.com
In 2011, Lightning set the land speed record at 215.960 mph(top speed of 218.637 mph) and became the world fastest production electric motorcycle. Next Lightning integrated the race proven technologies into their customer products - the Lightning LS-218 in 2015 and the Lightning Strike in 2019 which were well received by the market.

Click to expand...

The only machine they broke 200 on was the LS-218 and they haven't made any more of them since the first batch. The founder of Lightning is a compulsive liar. You can, in theory, order a LS-218 but it's actually impossible because only a handful exist and they do not/cannot make more. The Strike was an abysmal failure. Terrible quality carbon, unsealed battery packs (exposed cells!!!!), performance values nowhere near advertised, they don't even have a way to display charge, you have to manually calculate the charge level of the battery based on BMS numbers.

Electric bikes are the future and my Energica Ego was a hell of a machine. Lightning, however, has no horse in the race. They are an irrelevant scam company that had one marginal success in the form of the LS-218 (which, while fast, is apparently a ...... bike to ride due to an extremely wide turning radius and miserably horrible throttle response/power application) and nothing else. The founder is a liar and personally attacks anyone who asks any difficult questions. I strongly recommend distancing yourself from him/the company as they're a .... stain on the industry.

MaverickiB said:

The only machine they broke 200 on was the LS-218 and they haven't made any more of them since the first batch. The founder of Lightning is a compulsive liar. You can, in theory, order a LS-218 but it's actually impossible because only a handful exist and they do not/cannot make more. The Strike was an abysmal failure. Terrible quality carbon, unsealed battery packs (exposed cells!!!!), performance values nowhere near advertised, they don't even have a way to display charge, you have to manually calculate the charge level of the battery based on BMS numbers.

Electric bikes are the future and my Energica Ego was a hell of a machine. Lightning, however, has no horse in the race. They are an irrelevant scam company that had one marginal success in the form of the LS-218 (which, while fast, is apparently a ...... bike to ride due to an extremely wide turning radius and miserably horrible throttle response/power application) and nothing else. The founder is a liar and personally attacks anyone who asks any difficult questions. I strongly recommend distancing yourself from him/the company as they're a .... stain on the industry.

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Well that’s good to know….at $19k for the Strike, if it were as advertised I would have probably bought one just to try out and support the technology.

Unfortunately, a lot of these promising American motorcycle manufacturers are being killed by terrible leadership. Zero has found a level of success, they're just still wildly overpriced/underpowered for what they are. Lighting was destroyed from inside by an egomaniacal owner, Damon seems to be following the same pattern. A big issue is these companies just keep reusing the same ....... people. A company like Mission motors or Alta will fail and the next rising company like Lightning or Damon will scoop up all of those failed leaders with their failed ideas like it's a good thing.

I think Eric Buell was America's shot at competent american superbikes. A lot of people like to blame Harley for that not happening to the extent that it should, but Buell hasn't found success for the same reason many American companies keep failing. His god damn ego! Buell is a great engineer but has zero ability to market a product and have it actually make money. All of these EV motorcycle companies are the same stories, dudes who are mechanically competent and know their ...., but have no ....... clue how to actually market anything. Check out the marketing for Damon, it ....... sucks. Still images, no videos other than bikes rolling at a crawl, and every time you ask a question, the marketing team just says stupid .... like, "It's a suprise!" or "Wait and see!" They're trying to market a motorcycle like it's a video game or something and it's pathetic.

Americans can make great motorcycles, but holy .... they can't run a motorcycle company or sell them worth a damn. Now that I think of it, it's probably because the prominent American brand, Harley, doesn't require any selling. Its name sells itself. Take the Harley name away from them and these salesman can't sell .....

Marketing is why Musk is the richest man on the planet...

CSV4 said:

Marketing is why Musk is the richest man on the planet...

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Seems to be a running trend these days… Boomers be easily hoodwinked

Now that Ducati will be the MotoE partner, I wonder what we’ll see from them on the electric moto side?

rac1ngsnak3 said:

Now that Ducati will be the MotoE partner, I wonder what we’ll see from them on the electric moto side?

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Curious as well. I would *assume* whatever they come up with will perform better than the Ego platform Energica was using. The MotoE bikes are nearly identical to the street models, just with some unlocked performance. 150ft/lb of torque and somewhere around the 150hp range. Energica just came out with a new motor this year with even better numbers.

I'd honestly be surprised if Ducati produces the entire platform in house. Energica is basically right across the street from Ducati, and recieved help from Ducati in developing their trellis frame. The entire front end on Energicas is made from Ducati parts (the 1098 platform). Swingarm was designed by MV Agusta. I wonder if Ducati is going to cut a deal with Energica, building the chassis and mostly everything else in-house with Energica supplied batteries and motors.

That is all rather bizare to me because the one thing Americans do better than anyone else is marketing and sales. That said, 8 out of 10 Silicon Valley start ups I consult have the same issue. They have some amazing tech and have no idea how to find market fit. They put everything into engineering and make a product for the 38 nerds who get it. Then they have 38 customers.
At the same time I'd like to recognize Harley has been all about kill all competition starting with Indian. Not, out perform or outsell. It was a pickup truck full of guys with shotguns, went and burned down the competitor's factory. Recently, it's more corporate 'acquire-and-kill,' type tactics. Those allowed to exist a little, like Keanu Reeves' Arch Motorcycles seem to have a need to use HardlyAbleson's motors however stupid that chunk of iron could be.

MaverickiB said:

Unfortunately, a lot of these promising American motorcycle manufacturers are being killed by terrible leadership. Zero has found a level of success, they're just still wildly overpriced/underpowered for what they are. Lighting was destroyed from inside by an egomaniacal owner, Damon seems to be following the same pattern. A big issue is these companies just keep reusing the same ....... people. A company like Mission motors or Alta will fail and the next rising company like Lightning or Damon will scoop up all of those failed leaders with their failed ideas like it's a good thing.

I think Eric Buell was America's shot at competent american superbikes. A lot of people like to blame Harley for that not happening to the extent that it should, but Buell hasn't found success for the same reason many American companies keep failing. His god damn ego! Buell is a great engineer but has zero ability to market a product and have it actually make money. All of these EV motorcycle companies are the same stories, dudes who are mechanically competent and know their ...., but have no ....... clue how to actually market anything. Check out the marketing for Damon, it ....... sucks. Still images, no videos other than bikes rolling at a crawl, and every time you ask a question, the marketing team just says stupid .... like, "It's a suprise!" or "Wait and see!" They're trying to market a motorcycle like it's a video game or something and it's pathetic.

Americans can make great motorcycles, but holy .... they can't run a motorcycle company or sell them worth a damn. Now that I think of it, it's probably because the prominent American brand, Harley, doesn't require any selling. Its name sells itself. Take the Harley name away from them and these salesman can't sell .....

Click to expand...

That would be amazing to see. One of the things that propelled Ducati was the collaborations after WWII in that region Emilia–Romagna that became the norm. The country was on its knees, so they said fk-it let's work together. Ferrari & Ducati were "sister companies" for many years. Other regions stuck to competitive capitalism and didn't grow even a fraction as much.

MaverickiB said:

Curious as well. I would *assume* whatever they come up with will perform better than the Ego platform Energica was using. The MotoE bikes are nearly identical to the street models, just with some unlocked performance. 150ft/lb of torque and somewhere around the 150hp range. Energica just came out with a new motor this year with even better numbers.

I'd honestly be surprised if Ducati produces the entire platform in house. Energica is basically right across the street from Ducati, and recieved help from Ducati in developing their trellis frame. The entire front end on Energicas is made from Ducati parts (the 1098 platform). Swingarm was designed by MV Agusta. I wonder if Ducati is going to cut a deal with Energica, building the chassis and mostly everything else in-house with Energica supplied batteries and motors.

Click to expand...

Vbreeze said:

That is all rather bizare to me because the one thing Americans do better than anyone else is marketing and sales. That said, 8 out of 10 Silicon Valley start ups I consult have the same issue. They have some amazing tech and have no idea how to find market fit. They put everything into engineering and make a product for the 38 nerds who get it. Then they have 38 customers.
At the same time I'd like to recognize Harley has been all about kill all competition starting with Indian. Not, out perform or outsell. It was a pickup truck full of guys with shotguns, went and burned down the competitor's factory. Recently, it's more corporate 'acquire-and-kill,' type tactics. Those allowed to exist a little, like Keanu Reeves' Arch Motorcycles seem to have a need to use HardlyAbleson's motors however stupid that chunk of iron could be.

Click to expand...

You essentially have 4 personality types in business, one is the engineer archetype.

They have low competitive drive and low relationship building skills. Their philosophy in business is what I call The Field of Dreams philosophy, meaning, it’s all about building a better mousetrap for them, “If you build it they will come.”

But history is filled with master craftsman and inventors that died paupers, it’s not so filled with people that were good at the business of doing business that died paupers.

It’s a rare talent that has the ability to create something cool, then monetize it. One in a million.

Where it gets weird in the emerging tech world is that these engineer archetypes have to become salesman to get funding for their big idea, things often go to .... after that because they have to start telling little white lies about speed and stage of development or they don’t get money to fund the vision they are obsessed with. All well meaning in the beginning, because they believe that they have the whole thing figured out, and a little money will make it happen immediately. Rarely does that happen, so they get behind the 8 ball, then little white lies become big lies and it cascades from there.

I’m sort of a business hired gun. I’m a strategy and business implementation analyst, I usually get called in to “make it work”, very often after the .... hits the fan, and me and my guys have to turn it around.

Other times it’s just a function of the enterprise getting stuck at a certain size or place that they can’t get past and we sort that out.

Very rare that I walk in and all I have to do is get their taxes down because of all that money that they are making, those are fun ones, but rare. Usually there’s always some gap that can be closed to scale the business better.

All four core personality types have their own strengths and weaknesses, the sign of a mature business owner is someone that recognizes their strengths, recognizes their weaknesses, and accounts for BOTH in how they set up their business. But that’s where ego comes in, you need a big ego to start a venture, ego is a good thing in that, but you also have to be mature enough to recognize your weaknesses and account for them by getting other people around you that are good at marketing if you an engineer type, product development if you’re a relationship maker type, and so on.

People hire me to come in an ..... the strengths and weakness in the enterprise so there are no blind spots, then put systems and controls in place that accentuate the strengths and fix the weaknesses.

I’m told I’m the top guy in the country at that right now, though I don’t know how one would benchmark or measure that so I take it with a grain of salt…I am good at it though, with a good enough documented track record to support a good reputation, so people hire me to come in and look at things, identify any blind spots over strengths and weakness then fix what needs fixed. But even after they hire me and my guys in tell them the truth guess how many want to hear about the enterprises weaknesses and really address them hahaha.

The ones that do become the Harley Davidsons and Ducati’s of the world, the ones that don’t become a cautionary tale like Lightning more often than not.