Listen to the Superleggera start and rev...

Duck41 said:

On the contrary, it was perfectly in line with my expectations. Call me skeptical about your claims.

Nonetheless, I am genuinely interested in having these questions answered. Feel free to oblige anytime, provided you're capable of doing so.

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really, we have have someone who is close to the factory and willing to provide information on a new upcoming bike and hopefully give the forum a greater insight into new bikes, products etc and so far he has only provided great information you are being a bit of an ass to him or maybe you need to step back and review your posts as you seem pretty dismissive and aggressive in your writing.

Just my opinion

shakazulu12 said:

Again, thanks for even taking the time to drop in. It's not often many get an opportunity to discuss things like this with people at the factory.

Feel free to entertain us with any interesting tidbits that may not be readily apparent just in some of the media releases that are circling around. Looking forward to journalist reviews of this bike.

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No problem! It's valuable for me, too, to have a direct line on what forum members (who are often among the most knowledgeable and influential enthusiasts) think.

End of the day here. Goodnight all, even you, Duck41

@TJ99
First, thanks for taking our questions. This level of insight is a rarity on an enthusiast forum.

Were there any features you wanted the Superleggera to have that didn't make it to production?


Thanks!

JeffD said:

TJ99 - I actually had a fantastic experience with Ducati customer service from Borgo Panigale. 2 years ago (2012) at Daytona Beach Bike Week, I test rode several Ducatis at a local dealer who hosted the Southeast Ducati NA factory representative (Chris, don't know his last name). My name and number somehow made it to a marketing research person from Italy, which I assume was in the Borgo Panigale home office. It was a woman who spoke a bit of broken English and she had a few questions about my demo experience. She was so pleasant to talk to and enthusiastic about Ducati fans, and I was so impressed to get a call directly from the factory in Italy that it bolstered my love for the brand.

I've ridden for 24 years and owned Triumph's, MV Agusta's, Aprilia's, Buell's and all the Japanese brands. But somehow I never owned a Ducati. This phone call pushed me over the edge and I bought a 2012 1199.

If you are able, please pass on my story, as if I were in the marketing department I would want to know that those efforts paid off directly.

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In South Africa Ducati sucks big time since its Porsche SA take over. The Ducatisti who had bought their Ducatis from the previous (now disenfranchised importers) had to decide between losing their service plans or their guarantees, they could not keep both.
I tried to discuss it with the Ducati Sales Manager for Africa at the South African Ducati Dream Day held at Kyalami and was met with deception and insults. When I complained to the Ducati Customer Service line I was met with stony silence.

Claymore said:

In South Africa Ducati sucks big time since its Porsche SA take over. The Ducatisti who had bought their Ducatis from the previous (now disenfranchised importers) had to decide between losing their service plans or their guarantees, they could not keep both.
I tried to discuss it with the Ducati Sales Manager for Africa at the South African Ducati Dream Day held at Kyalami and was met with deception and insults. When I complained to the Ducati Customer Service line I was met with stony silence.

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Sorry to hear that bro.. sucks that you got a raw deal

TJ99 said:

No problem! It's valuable for me, too, to have a direct line on what forum members (who are often among the most knowledgeable and influential enthusiasts) think.

End of the day here. Goodnight all, even you, Duck41

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Thanks for taking the time to answer all the questions.

It is my understanding that the engines are exactly the same between the R and Superleggera. Can you confirm if there are any changes from the R engine other then the tuning??

leftcoast32 said:

Thanks for taking the time to answer all the questions.

It is my understanding that the engines are exactly the same between the R and Superleggera. Can you confirm if there are any changes from the R engine other then the tuning??

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As far as I know there are at least three differences between the Superleggera and the R's engines:
1) The Superleggera has WSB two ring pistons whereas the R has the "normal" Panigale pistons,
2) The Superleggera makes use of Tungsten counter weights in its crank, whereas the R has a lightened Panigale crank (sans Tungsten counter weights) and
3) both the inlet and outlet valves of the Superleggera are made of Titanium. whereas on the R only the inlets are made of Titanium.

leftcoast32 said:

Thanks for taking the time to answer all the questions.

It is my understanding that the engines are exactly the same between the R and Superleggera. Can you confirm if there are any changes from the R engine other then the tuning??

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I can't name them all off the top of my head, but it's detailed right on the Ducati site. There are a host of changes, pistons, cams, crank etc.

really cool that this guy is so nice even after members are complete jackasses to him


thanks for being a trooper, TJ99.

TJ99 said:

Look guys I've worked hard on the project, am proud of it, and am a true gearhead so I love and appreciate the SL just as much as its owners probably will. So I'm happy to respond to reasonable questions about the bike.

That said, asking for personal info, attacking my credibility, demanding data in a condescending way, and giving me loaded questions will probably not get the best results. Understandable, I hope?

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If I've offended anyone with my wording then I apologize. TJ99 and I have engaged in a bit of ructious debate in the past without any red flags being thrown, so I wasn't aware this type of dialogue was at some point deemed inappropriate. I will try to mind my manners henceforth.

TJ99: To be clear, it was not my intention to collect personal information from you; rather, after you willingly divulged your involvement in the SL project, I felt it appropriate to request that you elaborate on your area of expertise.

My following request for engine performance data to support your claim was an attempt to validate your statements and absolve any suspicions that may exist regarding your credibility (I am not alone in my skepticism). Surely this is understandable, as it isn't everyday product managers of high profile corporate projects find time to participate in public forums regarding those projects. Additionally, I think there is a distinguishable difference in attempting to establish one's credibility, and attacking one's credibility. You'll find that I never stated you are not who you claim to be, only that I naturally hold a healthy skepticism to those claims, and have resultantly provided opportunities for you to validate them.

With my attempt at bearing an olive branch now out of the way, I believe my initial questions hold merit and so they still remain: 1) What is the exact HP figure of the 119SL, 2) Do you have access to performance data that could help quantify the performance character differences among the 1199, 1199R, and 1199SL engines, 3) Does the lean-angle data sensor interoperate with DTC, or ABS, like that of some of Ducati's competitors, and 4) What is the range of adjustability on the newly developed wheelie control, and does it provide any superior features to wheelie control technology offered by the competition?

Duck41 said:

If I've offended anyone with my wording then I apologize. TJ99 and I have engaged in a bit of ructious debate in the past without any red flags being thrown, so I wasn't aware this type of dialogue was at some point deemed inappropriate. I will try to mind my manners henceforth.

TJ99: To be clear, it was not my intention to collect personal information from you; rather, after you willingly divulged your involvement in the SL project, I felt it appropriate to request that you elaborate on your area of expertise.

My following request for engine performance data to support your claim was an attempt to validate your statements and absolve any suspicions that may exist regarding your credibility (I am not alone in my skepticism). Surely this is understandable, as it isn't everyday product managers of high profile corporate projects find time to participate in public forums regarding those projects. Additionally, I think there is a distinguishable difference in attempting to establish one's credibility, and attacking one's credibility. You'll find that I never stated you are not who you claim to be, only that I naturally hold a healthy skepticism to those claims, and have resultantly provided opportunities for you to validate them.

With my attempt at bearing an olive branch now out of the way, I believe my initial questions hold merit and so they still remain: 1) What is the exact HP figure of the 119SL, 2) Do you have access to performance data that could help quantify the performance character differences among the 1199, 1199R, and 1199SL engines, 3) Does the lean-angle data sensor interoperate with DTC, or ABS, like that of some of Ducati's competitors, and 4) What is the range of adjustability on the newly developed wheelie control, and does it provide any superior features to wheelie control technology offered by the competition?

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I do not trust the Ducati Factory further than I can throw them with a Panigale either.

Duck41 said:

If I've offended anyone with my wording then I apologize. TJ99 and I have engaged in a bit of ructious debate in the past without any red flags being thrown, so I wasn't aware this type of dialogue was at some point deemed inappropriate. I will try to mind my manners henceforth.

TJ99: To be clear, it was not my intention to collect personal information from you; rather, after you willingly divulged your involvement in the SL project, I felt it appropriate to request that you elaborate on your area of expertise.

My following request for engine performance data to support your claim was an attempt to validate your statements and absolve any suspicions that may exist regarding your credibility (I am not alone in my skepticism). Surely this is understandable, as it isn't everyday product managers of high profile corporate projects find time to participate in public forums regarding those projects. Additionally, I think there is a distinguishable difference in attempting to establish one's credibility, and attacking one's credibility. You'll find that I never stated you are not who you claim to be, only that I naturally hold a healthy skepticism to those claims, and have resultantly provided opportunities for you to validate them.

With my attempt at bearing an olive branch now out of the way, I believe my initial questions hold merit and so they still remain: 1) What is the exact HP figure of the 119SL, 2) Do you have access to performance data that could help quantify the performance character differences among the 1199, 1199R, and 1199SL engines, 3) Does the lean-angle data sensor interoperate with DTC, or ABS, like that of some of Ducati's competitors, and 4) What is the range of adjustability on the newly developed wheelie control, and does it provide any superior features to wheelie control technology offered by the competition?

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FFS don't apologise your entitled to be sceptical . It's the internet I could be the CEO of Ducati if I tried .

Claymore said:

As far as I know there are at least three differences between the Superleggera and the R's engines:
1) The Superleggera has WSB two ring pistons whereas the R has the "normal" Panigale pistons,
2) The Superleggera makes use of Tungsten counter weights in its crank, whereas the R has a lightened Panigale crank (sans Tungsten counter weights) and
3) both the inlet and outlet valves of the Superleggera are made of Titanium. whereas on the R only the inlets are made of Titanium.

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Most the power of this motor comes from the top end . The pistons on the SL are lighter so in theory will get to the power quicker from what I understand the first batch had cracking issues but is now fixed . TJ 99 should be able to confirm ?
Getting a R motor to similar specs really requires most the work in the top .
Replacing outlets with titanium valves adding SL cams and some work on the heads should produce some improvement .

wilkson said:

FFS don't apologise your entitled to be sceptical . It's the internet I could be the CEO of Ducati if I tried .

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Oh, I agree entirely as I am still unapologetically skeptical. However, apparently some here fear our guest of honor may be as timid as a rabbit and worry that the tone of my posts will send him scurrying away.

I've never been much into servility, which isn't necessarily a very harmonious approach, so I try to be sympathetic to the desires of the community when it seems I'm upsetting too many. Hopefully all hurt feelings are now mended and we can move forward with learning more about this bike's attributes.

Duck41 said:

Oh, I agree entirely as I am still unapologetically skeptical. However, apparently some here fear our guest of honor may be as timid as a rabbit and worry that the tone of my posts will send him scurrying away.

I've never been much into servility, which isn't necessarily a very harmonious approach, so I try to be sympathetic to the desires of the community when it seems I'm upsetting too many. Hopefully all hurt feelings are now mended and we can move forward with learning more about this bike's attributes.

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I sore the very same thing happen at the org when Frank Stephenson from McLaren graced us with his presence .
Some guys wanted to bow to him others wanted him just to piss off . Speculation is always fun . It's the internet .

Duck41 said:

Oh, I agree entirely as I am still unapologetically skeptical. However, apparently some here fear our guest of honor may be as timid as a rabbit and worry that the tone of my posts will send him scurrying away.

I've never been much into servility, which isn't necessarily a very harmonious approach, so I try to be sympathetic to the desires of the community when it seems I'm upsetting too many. Hopefully all hurt feelings are now mended and we can move forward with learning more about this bike's attributes.

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You're quite correct in some ways.

But would it hurt to be more sceptical in the background?
And not quite so brazen about it

Consider the possibility of coming across as being a bit too cheeky as well?
Sometimes in life it doesn't pay to ask for more
And it's possible to kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

On the face of it, this fellow has given no indication of not being genuine.
And on the other side of the coin, if he's not genuine it's not going to hurt anyone.
If you're inline to get one, then it will all be explained in your owners manual.

Some of the questions that have been asked thus far, have been explained in previous releases of information by DUCATI.
It could also be argued that if one had a genuine interest, then one would be across it already.

Claymore said:

In South Africa Ducati sucks big time since its Porsche SA take over. The Ducatisti who had bought their Ducatis from the previous (now disenfranchised importers) had to decide between losing their service plans or their guarantees, they could not keep both.
I tried to discuss it with the Ducati Sales Manager for Africa at the South African Ducati Dream Day held at Kyalami and was met with deception and insults. When I complained to the Ducati Customer Service line I was met with stony silence.

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PM sent

I don't have a problem with skepticism Duck41, just the other things that come along with your posts. I'm sure you're very good at Scrabble, though.

Anyway everyone, it's not the messenger here that's important, it's the message. I'm not interested in talking about myself, but rather the bike. The only reason I even mentioned my role was to give you some confidence that the information I'm giving you about the SL is the truth, because there seem to be a lot of misconceptions out there. Take what I say with a grain of salt if you want, that's fine. The bikes are already in the hands of some customers, so it should be easy to verify if what I am saying is accurate or not, very shortly.

@bikenamenumber - one or two small "nice to haves," but nothing important. Every bike has some degree of constraints during its development, but I can say that there were fewer with the SL than with any other bike I've personally been involved in.

A few examples -

Some wondered why we didn't equip it with gas-charged forks or semi-active suspension. Believe me it wasn't about cost savings. The key is in the name - Superleggera. Extreme lightness and extreme power were the main goals. The custom FL916s we used, with material removed from the sides of the fork tubes and machined billet lowers, are the lightest possible solution that still works at a world-class level (see Valia's time around Mugello).

Now take a look at the engine. Notice that the clutch cover is mag, but the alternator cover is alu. Why? Did we cheap out on it? Nope. The alternator cover is subject to unique stresses, and to make it out of mag with the appropriate strength we would've had to make it thicker. In the end, this added thickness would've made it heavier than the alu cover. So, we kept it alu to save a few grams, even though we knew that mag has a more prestigious image. Even the radiator cap, of all things, is machined from billet alu to save a few grams.

Consider this - with the race kit installed the SL is 1.5Kg lighter (163.5) than the minimum weight of an actual World Superbike (165Kg). But, that's with the headlights still installed! Drop those and another kilo goes away, you now have a production motorcycle with a warranty, that is 2.5Kg lighter than an actual World Superbike.

In short, you simply don't get that kind of spec without considering every detail. So, there's not much I could improve about it.


@leftcoast32 no, the engines are quite different as the others said. Key info is described in detail on the site, check it out. 2-ring pistons with SBK crown surface, full ti valves, tungsten balanced crank, modified squish area, various ti bolts, different cams, different clutch, different gear position sensor, and a few other very small details.

I understand the SL clutch can be fitted to any 1199 engine . In theory a 1199 motor can be brought up to SL spec quite easy .

TJ99 said:

@leftcoast32 no, the engines are quite different as the others said. Key info is described in detail on the site, check it out. 2-ring pistons with SBK crown surface, full ti valves, tungsten balanced crank, modified squish area, various ti bolts, different cams, different clutch, different gear position sensor, and a few other very small details.

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Thanks!