Lots of Headshake, whats the problem?

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EvoL, so how did it work out?

I only have 160 miles so far on my break-in and just last night I was putting more miles on. I happened to be on a short highway stretch and I was tailgating a tractor-trailer to avoid the bug shower (spring in Florida is bug heaven) and the bike was weaving like hell at 75 mph! It was almost comical how much the bike was darting around by the wind buffeting off the back of the big-rig.

At first I thought it was me and I completely relaxed my grip on the bars and got in a race crouch with more weight on the front at neutral throttle. Didn't have any effect and the weave was so pronounced I could see the 1199 headlight beam dancing around on the ground and back of the trailer. I can only imagine riding at top speed on a windy day what it could be like.
 
JeffD said:
EvoL, so how did it work out?

I only have 160 miles so far on my break-in and just last night I was putting more miles on. I happened to be on a short highway stretch and I was tailgating a tractor-trailer to avoid the bug shower (spring in Florida is bug heaven) and the bike was weaving like hell at 75 mph! It was almost comical how much the bike was darting around by the wind buffeting off the back of the big-rig.

At first I thought it was me and I completely relaxed my grip on the bars and got in a race crouch with more weight on the front at neutral throttle. Didn't have any effect and the weave was so pronounced I could see the 1199 headlight beam dancing around on the ground and back of the trailer. I can only imagine riding at top speed on a windy day what it could be like.
Click to expand...

Yes, i feel the same way. The bike is very affected by wind, at least mine (compared to my GSXRs anyways). I just assumed it was because it was lighter and skinnier than the others.

My issue is a bit different. My issue can be described as a mild speed Tankslapper.

I added dynabeads to cancel out the question of improper balance on the tires, and it seems to have addressed it. I havent been able to really rip it to find out 100% though.

If it is still present, I will just get the dealer to look at it. I talked to the guy who sold me the tires and he says the Michelin Cups have a very aggressive front tire profile which doesnt have a ton of upright grip, as well as them possibly being slightly taller because of the profile. I may have to adjust the suspension a tad to not have it squat as much. I dont know though, Im going to bring it to a suspension expert locally here in Tampa anyways, so I will bring that up.
 
EvoL said:
Probably.

They added DynaBeads to the tire, so I will ride it and check it out.
Click to expand...

"dynabeads"....i don't have any experience with them, but you should not need anything more than a simple wheel weight

-- my suggestion: take the wheel off yourself, and balance it - simple enough to do - you could try getting the NoMar Balancer

-- or try the simplest balancer i've ever seen from MarcParnes

Wheel Balancers

Motorcycle Wheel Balancer
 
EvoL said:
Yes, i feel the same way. The bike is very affected by wind, at least mine (compared to my GSXRs anyways). I just assumed it was because it was lighter and skinnier than the others.

My issue is a bit different. My issue can be described as a mild speed Tankslapper.

I added dynabeads to cancel out the question of improper balance on the tires, and it seems to have addressed it. I havent been able to really rip it to find out 100% though.

If it is still present, I will just get the dealer to look at it. I talked to the guy who sold me the tires and he says the Michelin Cups have a very aggressive front tire profile which doesnt have a ton of upright grip, as well as them possibly being slightly taller because of the profile. I may have to adjust the suspension a tad to not have it squat as much. I dont know though, Im going to bring it to a suspension expert locally here in Tampa anyways, so I will bring that up.
Click to expand...

-- did you buy the V profile tire ? - the Cups are available in V profile for the front - it would have a VA, VB, or VC stamped on the sidewall

-- they also are available in a standard profile - more rounded, as opposed to a V

-- if in fact it is V profile, you'll need to crank up the steering damper a click or 2 to help with the tank slapper syndrome - the V profile tire is more suited to tight twisty tracks where the bike is being transitioned quickly, and wouldn't be considered ideal for street riding unless you are willing to put up with the lighter feeling up front under acceleration for the quicker steering response
 
RD16RR said:
"dynabeads"....i don't have any experience with them, but you should not need anything more than a simple wheel weight

-- my suggestion: take the wheel off yourself, and balance it - simple enough to do - you could try getting the NoMar Balancer

-- or try the simplest balancer i've ever seen from MarcParnes

Wheel Balancers

Motorcycle Wheel Balancer
Click to expand...

over on the ducati.ms forum are several guys who swear on the dynabeads.

i might give them a shot next time.
just because i change the tires myself and am too impatient for balancing to the grade of perfection i demand.
 
Phil said:
over on the ducati.ms forum are several guys who swear on the dynabeads.

i might give them a shot next time.
just because i change the tires myself and am too impatient for balancing to the grade of perfection i demand.
Click to expand...

-- you can easily get your tire balanced to near perfection by using aluminum weights - aluminum is soft enough to allow you to shave minute slivers off to get a "perfect balance"

-- dynabeads, if i remember them correctly from years, and years....decades ago.....are little teeny-tiny bb's that you fill the tire with ? (horsefeathers!!)
 
RD16RR said:
"dynabeads"....i don't have any experience with them, but you should not need anything more than a simple wheel weight

-- my suggestion: take the wheel off yourself, and balance it - simple enough to do - you could try getting the NoMar Balancer

-- or try the simplest balancer i've ever seen from MarcParnes

Wheel Balancers

Motorcycle Wheel Balancer
Click to expand...

I dont have the equipment to do that, and dont really want to. Ill pay a few bucks to have a shop do it, or just use the DynaBeads which seem to work great. Thanks for the suggestion though, I appreciate it.

RD16RR said:
-- did you buy the V profile tire ? - the Cups are available in V profile for the front - it would have a VA, VB, or VC stamped on the sidewall

-- they also are available in a standard profile - more rounded, as opposed to a V

-- if in fact it is V profile, you'll need to crank up the steering damper a click or 2 to help with the tank slapper syndrome - the V profile tire is more suited to tight twisty tracks where the bike is being transitioned quickly, and wouldn't be considered ideal for street riding unless you are willing to put up with the lighter feeling up front under acceleration for the quicker steering response
Click to expand...

I did buy the V. I didn't know it would have this effect, and in the future will buy the standard tires. It does corner much better though, but not ideal for the street which is 95% of my riding.

I went VB/B on the Cups.

Phil said:
over on the ducati.ms forum are several guys who swear on the dynabeads.

i might give them a shot next time.
just because i change the tires myself and am too impatient for balancing to the grade of perfection i demand.
Click to expand...

Everybody who uses them seems to love them, so I decided to give them a shot. They seem to work great so far!

RD16RR said:
-- you can easily get your tire balanced to near perfection by using aluminum weights - aluminum is soft enough to allow you to shave minute slivers off to get a "perfect balance"

-- dynabeads, if i remember them correctly from years, and years....decades ago.....are little teeny-tiny bb's that you fill the tire with ? (horsefeathers!!)
Click to expand...

Near perfection is not the same as perfection as the Dynabeads provide :p . They are tiny ceramic balls that balance the tire perfectly as it wears, dynamically changing each time the bike moves.
 
...so your head shake issue is certainly related to acceleration and steering damper being set too loose - tighten it a click or 2 and you should be ok.......however:

....dynabeads ?....."to each his own devices...."

-- i sure wouldn't want anything getting close to or near the schrader valve - like getting stuck in it (?)

-- maybe they can convince the touring (rv's - harleys - goldwings) and trucking industry on the merits of them....

-- check and see how many tire distributors even bother to carry them - they have been around for decades, and there seems there will always be a market for them...i just don't think the sport bike market, or bicycle market validates them too well

-- go back to standard wheel weights....and dial up a truly "perfect" balance - aluminum weights for trimming is the best way to go, if you need it - "i'm jus sayin..."
 
dynabead dilema.....(i came across this on a goldwing board and copied it for you)

Problem With Dyna Beads
I had recently removed my wheel weights and added the Dyan Beads. I have had problems with them and what the problem is that when I have checked air pressure the last two time on the rear wheel the Schrader Valve sticks open and and cannot stop the from leaking. I have had to remove the valve and have found that a bead was holding open the valve. I called Innovative and they said, yeap that happens and you need to buy our special filtered valve, but it will not work for your 90 degree NON-Industry standard valve stem. This is a know problem to them. The second person was rude and Honda is at fault for suppling non-standard valve stems. I was told that I was the only person in the entire world to complain about this and the owner would call back. Yea right.

The suggestion was to give the tire a quick burst of air before checking the tire pressure. What if I am at a hotel/motel and just want to check before heading out on a ride and bingo you have a flat tire now. I carry a small air compressor with me but what a pain.
 
and this:

I have helped a friend change his tires using the Dyna beads.Personally I think they are a PITA to deal with as far as needing a vacuum cleaner to suck them up out of the tire before they hit the floor.

I have chrome wheels and still use the sticky weights.But I know that you guys who use Dyna beads like them so-----
 
RD16RR said:
and this:

I have helped a friend change his tires using the Dyna beads.Personally I think they are a PITA to deal with as far as needing a vacuum cleaner to suck them up out of the tire before they hit the floor.

I have chrome wheels and still use the sticky weights.But I know that you guys who use Dyna beads like them so-----
Click to expand...

Oh well, they work fine for me.

Have you ever even used them? I dont care enough to get into a debate about them, and it seems to always turn into one on the forums.

I used them, they worked. Thats as far as my care goes.
 
RD16RR said:
...so your head shake issue is certainly related to acceleration and steering damper being set too loose - tighten it a click or 2 and you should be ok.......however:

....dynabeads ?....."to each his own devices...."

-- i sure wouldn't want anything getting close to or near the schrader valve - like getting stuck in it (?)

-- maybe they can convince the touring (rv's - harleys - goldwings) and trucking industry on the merits of them....

-- check and see how many tire distributors even bother to carry them - they have been around for decades, and there seems there will always be a market for them...i just don't think the sport bike market, or bicycle market validates them too well

-- go back to standard wheel weights....and dial up a truly "perfect" balance - aluminum weights for trimming is the best way to go, if you need it - "i'm jus sayin..."
Click to expand...

Thanks, I wish I would have known this before about the headshake and the V profile tires.
 
...lol's.....no way am i posting to start a debate...i know exactly what you mean, and i apologize if my post might have come off to you like that.....honestly, i am simply sharing my thoughts about what you are experiencing - dynabeads aside, and whatever you care to use for balancing your tires....so be it.......

-- as it relates to the head shake you have....it most certainly is the V profile and the fact that the bike accelerates strongly, so the front naturally gets light.....the V profile means you have less contact patch which combined with acceleration force will tend to lift the contact patch up off the road....leading to mild/moderate/violent head shake - the damper will help tame it...so it would be something to look at for adding a click or 2.....

-- your tire supplier should have at the very least pointed that detail out to you....no matter though, the non-V profile is available in the Cup....but who knows, by the time you need another front, you may grow very fond of the quick transitions..... :)

-- hope my comments help, as opposed to ignite a debate.......
 
RD16RR said:
-- as it relates to the head shake you have....it most certainly is the V profile and the fact that the bike accelerates strongly, so the front naturally gets light.....the V profile means you have less contact patch which combined with acceleration force will tend to lift the contact patch up off the road....leading to mild/moderate/violent head shake - the damper will help tame it...so it would be something to look at for adding a click or 2.....
Click to expand...

Word of caution on this. Dampers are useful devices but you have to be careful with them. They can hide a lot of problems and should be used *after* the base problem has been addressed/fixed.
I agree with you on the tire profile. It's accentuating a problem with the rear suspension setup. Suspension would seem to be slow to recover from a hard acceleration resulting in some front end lightness/headshake which the tire profile amplifies.
Just get that fixed before you start jacking up the steering damper.
 
RD16RR said:
...lol's.....no way am i posting to start a debate...i know exactly what you mean, and i apologize if my post might have come off to you like that.....honestly, i am simply sharing my thoughts about what you are experiencing - dynabeads aside, and whatever you care to use for balancing your tires....so be it.......

-- as it relates to the head shake you have....it most certainly is the V profile and the fact that the bike accelerates strongly, so the front naturally gets light.....the V profile means you have less contact patch which combined with acceleration force will tend to lift the contact patch up off the road....leading to mild/moderate/violent head shake - the damper will help tame it...so it would be something to look at for adding a click or 2.....

-- your tire supplier should have at the very least pointed that detail out to you....no matter though, the non-V profile is available in the Cup....but who knows, by the time you need another front, you may grow very fond of the quick transitions..... :)

-- hope my comments help, as opposed to ignite a debate.......
Click to expand...

Yes, they definitely help - thank you very much.

I have the base so I dont have an adjustable damper, I guess I will need to get one. I also added 2 clicks of compression dampening, but I haven't been able to ride it hard enough to check if it worked.

Again, thanks. I think we have the issue figured out. The tires needed rebalancing and we need a bit stiffer steering damper to counteract the lack of front upright grip with the V shaped tires.
 
chrissa said:
HyperPro has saved my bacon more than once on my old CBR600F2. That bike was pretty scary with Dunlop 207's.

Chris.
Click to expand...

:eek:207s:eek:...I had my 1st major wreck on those tires, slid under a truck because they offered the same amount of traction as the Big Wheel. I was afraid of trying Q2s due to the PTSD from 207s.
 
JeffD said:
EvoL, so how did it work out?

I only have 160 miles so far on my break-in and just last night I was putting more miles on. I happened to be on a short highway stretch and I was tailgating a tractor-trailer to avoid the bug shower (spring in Florida is bug heaven) and the bike was weaving like hell at 75 mph! It was almost comical how much the bike was darting around by the wind buffeting off the back of the big-rig.
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting...I had the identical experience last Sunday when I came back from a mountain ride while following a large truck on the freeway. At first I thought I might have a flat and pulled over. Everything looked good and I could not replicate the bike's behavior during the rest of my trip home.
 
zaster said:
Thanks for posting...I had the identical experience last Sunday when I came back from a mountain ride while following a large truck on the freeway. At first I thought I might have a flat and pulled over. Everything looked good and I could not replicate the bike's behavior during the rest of my trip home.
Click to expand...

You will want to get your suspension setup. Since I did mine, the bike feels much better at speed.

He found my front WAY too soft, and the rear WAY too hard.
 

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