need help slips or full

Rich22 said:

I'm fortunate enough to ride the bikes after installing and mapping the rapid bike race module on many bikes with and without the termi full system. The fact is the bikes with stock headers are stronger.

Amazing that even after we have proved the stock headers out perform the termi headers this debate keeps rearing its head!

If you can wait then I would, we have a full system on the way that has better performance figures. I'm sure akra will also rise to the challenge.

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Well I believe this keeps raising its head as the Termi is the only full system on the market and a system that can be evaluated by non vendors. It sounds to me that your simply trying to freeze the market till you have a product available. I realize that your offering what you call 'proof' and 'fact' of how good your future product could/should/would be, however there has been no real independent analysis of your non-shipping product vs shipping Termi product and then you have all the other elements style, etc.

We shall see AUSTIN RACING how your product stands up when it is actually on the market and your feet are held to the fire. I trust that you make it as good as you claim as your certainly knocking the Termi (your competition) when you don't even have a shipping product.

Now on a personal point of view and related to my context. Folks in California have till the end of the year to really get a full system as 1st Jan 2013 a whole raft of legislation comes into effect. Naturally, this only effects those on road and not track. For myself, I would rather have a FULL Termi system today, enjoy it and place a certain amount of trust that Ducati will release an UP MAP that will increase the power of the FULL Termi. I feel that my faith in Ducati is pretty well placed, as I have already placed a serious amount of coin where my mouth is by getting a 1199 Panigale S Tricolore and as my photos suggest I have invested that little bit more. Another fact to consider, is that Ducati have gone with a FULL Termi for racing, so they must have some faith in the exhaust.

In case your wondering I am a true consumer with no incentive from any vendor.

caliduc
What you say is Not true!
We have tested the TERMI FULL SYSTEM vs STOCK vs TERMI SLIP-ONS. Our slip ons are purely prototype and were put into the test to see how they did after we had made the modifications we felt were required.
Also worth noting we support Millsport Ducati and research for them. They have a winning bike with Lee Johnson winning most races he takes part in.
We are not trying to freeze the market or push a system that we have not yet completed. We are purely putting out the truth which I'm sure most forum members want to hear before parting with £2500!
If you feel we are pushing our product and dissing the termi's then I apologise for that but I can assure you that is not the intention.

It depends on the final cost. We are producing a 3/4 system that retains the stock flange point as this is the same part number as the termi full system. From that point on we will use Inconel to help the heat problem. The silencers and internals will probably be titanium with a possible black option.
Price will be competitive to the termi options.

CaliDuc said:

We shall see AUSTIN RACING how your product stands up when it is actually on the market and your feet are held to the fire. I trust that you make it as good as you claim as your certainly knocking the Termi (your competition) when you don't even have a shipping product.

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What they have been able to test so far is the slip ons vs the full system from Termi and the slip ons make a better spread of power. The header pipes for the full Termi system are too big and they lose torque and power compared to the standard headers, this is not Austin Racing pushing a product, it is fact shown on a dyno from a variety of bikes. The race Panigales here in the UK have already been trying a new header design from Termi!

The OP was asking about slip ons vs full system and the slip ons are the better choice. My bike, when fully mapped, made 187whp but still loses midrange to the slip ons.

I have no affiliation to Austin Racing but I have seen the dyno traces (and how bad mine was with the upmap: 174whp)

i didnt want to make a new topic

but sumone please tell me why slip on or full are twice the price compare to jap bikes.
coming from 2 jap bikes slip on were easy under 1k

if its because ducati owners would pay for it then i guess i already knew lol.

BlueBear said:

i didnt want to make a new topic

but sumone please tell me why slip on or full are twice the price compare to jap bikes.
coming from 2 jap bikes slip on were easy under 1k

if its because ducati owners would pay for it then i guess i already knew lol.

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Cos they can be......

BlueBear said:

i didnt want to make a new topic

but sumone please tell me why slip on or full are twice the price compare to jap bikes.
coming from 2 jap bikes slip on were easy under 1k

if its because ducati owners would pay for it then i guess i already knew lol.

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The Termignoni full system for R1 is $2000 + power commander V $350 + customer map $500. You are looking at $2850 for a full system with custom mapping for a R1. The Ducati full termi system $3400, comes with mapping to fit, tested (i would hope so) by the factory. That isn't so bad.

If you ask this question, deep down you really want a full system. Some just want someone to talk them out of it.

Get slip on then decide after u can buy the pipe after but i dont know if this is more expensive after all.

Rich22 said:

caliduc
What you say is Not true!
We have tested the TERMI FULL SYSTEM vs STOCK vs TERMI SLIP-ONS. Our slip ons are purely prototype and were put into the test to see how they did after we had made the modifications we felt were required.
Also worth noting we support Millsport Ducati and research for them. They have a winning bike with Lee Johnson winning most races he takes part in.
We are not trying to freeze the market or push a system that we have not yet completed. We are purely putting out the truth which I'm sure most forum members want to hear before parting with £2500!
If you feel we are pushing our product and dissing the termi's then I apologise for that but I can assure you that is not the intention.

It depends on the final cost. We are producing a 3/4 system that retains the stock flange point as this is the same part number as the termi full system. From that point on we will use Inconel to help the heat problem. The silencers and internals will probably be titanium with a possible black option.
Price will be competitive to the termi options.

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Hey AUSTIN RACING, what part of what I have written is NOT TRUE ? You want to start backing up your projections against me (a market customer) with some facts. I NEVER said you did not do testing I said
quote .. "I realize that your offering what you call 'proof' and 'fact' of how good your future product could/should/would be, however there has been no real independent analysis of your non-shipping product vs shipping Termi product and then you have all the other elements style, etc. "
I believe this to be a very true fact. I have yet to see you offer any form of independent analysis for your non-shipping product against the Termi. Sure you have posted your facts, however I have yet to see an independent analysis ... So AUSTIN RACING .. be honest and accurate in your responses and at least quote me correctly.

As you are a vendor, my observation is your trying to freeze the market with a non-shipping product. Here is my fact .. you tell the folks on the forum to wait if they can .. for your future product. Duh .. is this not freezing the market !!!!

You are going to get more RESPECT by providing some solid facts that have been independently verified or simply ship your products. You loose a lot of credibility when you knock an established product with a non-shipping one.

I also really do not like the way you state what I say as not being true, give me credit for being truly independent and at least offering facts. If your product is good when it is available you will get the kudos, if not then expect an honest and accurate reflection. However, given your track record of slagging off the Termi' your well advised to do a really good job.

Truth is subjective and is often born out in the result. We will ALL learn the truth about your product when we have the result in our hands.

In the same way, Ducati/Termi hasn't provided any proof that their system is worth. That is another fact.

YearOne said:

What they have been able to test so far is the slip ons vs the full system from Termi and the slip ons make a better spread of power. The header pipes for the full Termi system are too big and they lose torque and power compared to the standard headers, this is not Austin Racing pushing a product, it is fact shown on a dyno from a variety of bikes. The race Panigales here in the UK have already been trying a new header design from Termi!

The OP was asking about slip ons vs full system and the slip ons are the better choice. My bike, when fully mapped, made 187whp but still loses midrange to the slip ons.

I have no affiliation to Austin Racing but I have seen the dyno traces (and how bad mine was with the upmap: 174whp)

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Ok, so as I have been taken quite somewhat out of context here, let me see if I can straighten this out.

I know what AUSTIN RACING states as facts and figures, if you read my post correctly ( as AUSTIN RACING failed to do), I acknowledge that AUSTIN RACING has put forward some facts. I believe this to be DYNO tests performed by AUSTIN RACING. I continue to claim that I have not seen any INDEPENDENT VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE that would really help in any purchasing decision. The fact that Ducti will very obviously release future up maps to tweak it is not addressed by AUSTIN RACING.

I base my FACT that AUSTIN RACING is pushing a product, by their very statement that they are bringing a product to market and people should wait !!!

Excuse me, I thought the OP asked if the FULL system was worth the money. The only subjective part is what a contributor views as "worth the money". I have a FULL Termi, even Jet Hot coated. In my personal opinion I think it is worth the money. It also "looks" better and just so we are clear "better" means an improvement on previous systems.

pedrin said:

In the same way, Ducati/Termi hasn't provided any proof that their system is worth. That is another fact.

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Huh ? Where is the value in that statement ?

I don't work for Ducati/Termi. I purchased their products and I have an opinion based on experience. I do however believe that Ducati technical marketing has published information that states what they think it is worth.

Point is Ducati/Termi have something in the market that people can buy or not.

I've splashed out on full system (last week) seems smoother through the rev range and not as loud as my 1198sp but yet to get it on the dyno! Will report back when I get it done!

CaliDuc said:

I base my FACT that AUSTIN RACING is pushing a product, by their very statement that they are bringing a product to market and people should wait !!!

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Where do they make this statement? I have not seen it. They show test where they use the rapid bike and slip on and get more horsepower than the full exhaust with rapid bike and without. Where are your before and after dyno runs?

I believe you also stated that there is another map for the full termi system. Do you have it yet?

I have heard rumors that Termi is redesigning the full system and that the system they put on race bikes are different than the one you got. Seems that Termi rushed it a bit on design.

Sometimes it is better to wait it seems.

Brickcues said:

Where do they make this statement? I have not seen it. They show test where they use the rapid bike and slip on and get more horsepower than the full exhaust with rapid bike and without. Where are your before and after dyno runs?

I believe you also stated that there is another map for the full termi system. Do you have it yet?

I have heard rumors that Termi is redesigning the full system and that the system they put on race bikes are different than the one you got. Seems that Termi rushed it a bit on design.

Sometimes it is better to wait it seems.

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Are you paying attention :

AUSTIN RACING quote " If you can wait then I would, we have a full system on the way that has better performance figures. " ... I think that can be reasonably considered fact that AUSTIN RACING are pushing their own product.

Where are my DYNO runs ? WTF are you talking about ? I am not the one with an agenda to sell an exhaust system I am a consumer. I am asking for INDEPENDENT VERIFIABLE FACTS FROM AN INDEPENDENT BODY. Re-read my thread and think what your actually asking and stating.

Your quote "I have heard rumors that Termi is redesigning the full system and that the system they put on race bikes are different than the one you got." WTF are you talking about ? There is sufficient considered opinion that they will release an UP MAP. No doubt in the future they will redesign an exhaust like they redesign a bike.

Your quote "Seems that Termi rushed it a bit on design " .. WHY ? .. I prefer to have an INDEPENDENT VERIFIABLE FACTS FROM AN INDEPENDENT BODY relating to a shipping product.

Your quote "Sometimes it is better to wait it seems " .. In what context ? For what, when and why ? Can this not be applied to all technology ? Did you not read my comment about WHY i did not wait.

Consider I am talking from a personal context and I am merely holding a vendor to account for suspect marketing. The suspect marketing is slagging off a shipping product while not having one, trying to freeze the market and not having independently verified technical data, stating what I write is not true when I provide fact it is and they do not and above all being stupid enough to be a vendor pitching on a public forum.

Over several posts I have presented my case that I just do not believe AUSTIN RACING is playing fair.

It is important that VENDORS play fair and when they do not they should be held to account for it.

lets see it this way

question is to get full or slip on? and is it worth the full? alot of advice may lead away from the question but is still a good advice weather you see it or not.

some say wait which is normal since its near november and most have posted that will show there product for a new full system (Akrapovic, Leo, Austin), which to me is just a advice if you wanted to see all that is to offer. 1 month isnt to far off.

other side is waiting is a bitch and geting the full termi at the start would of been great investment (looks, Sound, quality over stock, and if any slight Gains remap HP). question is how long would you have to wait and would the other companies start offering there items in there so call november. other factor is you have to wait for people to post results which could take a full year b4 you are even happy.

back to the question.
if you got loads of cash - YES - you also said you dont mind spending the cash, dont have to wait the full year for comparison vs others companies.
if you dont have cash - NO. slip on is suffiencent or wait to see others.

Difference Slip on vs FULL
remember with any full system or slip on the gains are tiny but there is some. just paying the premium price thats all - can you do that?

to me get what you want. half arse isnt my way. any & most exhaust system are VERY so slight +/- difference against companies. im goin for akras since im not a fan of the SS prefer TI (it gets colourful after its been cooked) but that will also depend on looks also.

im trying to cover everything i can but end of the day only 1 person can decide (way i see things dont do .... with regrets - hence im stupid and still waiting to decide whens the right time for me but also base vs S)

i hope i really helped with your question mate
good luck

CaliDuc said:

Huh ? Where is the value in that statement ?

I don't work for Ducati/Termi. I purchased their products and I have an opinion based on experience. I do however believe that Ducati technical marketing has published information that states what they think it is worth.

Point is Ducati/Termi have something in the market that people can buy or not.

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relax CaliDuc, for whatever reason you are getting defensive and nobody is attacking you. who said -or even insinuated-that you work for Ducati/TERMI?? The value of my statement is exactly what it says. I have been looking into getting the system so I asked my dealer (DUCATI) if they have data on performance. He said they dont, but his experience is that if feel better in the middle range. I have asked them to keep me updated in case something comes up. that is it

CaliDuc said:

I know what AUSTIN RACING states as facts and figures, if you read my post correctly ( as AUSTIN RACING failed to do), I acknowledge that AUSTIN RACING has put forward some facts. I believe this to be DYNO tests performed by AUSTIN RACING. I continue to claim that I have not seen any INDEPENDENT VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE that would really help in any purchasing decision. The fact that Ducti will very obviously release future up maps to tweak it is not addressed by AUSTIN RACING.

I base my FACT that AUSTIN RACING is pushing a product, by their very statement that they are bringing a product to market and people should wait !!!

Excuse me, I thought the OP asked if the FULL system was worth the money. The only subjective part is what a contributor views as "worth the money". I have a FULL Termi, even Jet Hot coated. In my personal opinion I think it is worth the money. It also "looks" better and just so we are clear "better" means an improvement on previous systems.

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Jeez are you on your period or something? Calm down its just a little internet discussion.

Austin Racing are not currently pushing their product, they have so far provided evidence that the Termi system produces less power than the slip ons and that is what this whole thread is about. I bought the full system and I do not believe it is worth the money as dyno testing has proven despite mine making great peak power. The slips are the value here and that is the answer to the original question. You clearly disagree and that is fine too, I am glad you are happy with your system.

You would be seriously advised to get your bike mapped or on the Rapidbike though as with the upmap and system mine made 174whp with horrible fuelling and made 187whp after.

i appreciate the responses. Let me clear things up a little and try not to offend anyone that replied.
1) austin racing - i wasnt in any way shape or form trying to compare opposing systems or say your product is better/worse then termi. I know you are building one i respect that but i was asking about termis cause that is what is out right now. So i know i can compare the 2 views. I cant compare yours cause its not out yet. I should have had the question read slip ons vs full system but thats my fault.
2)the reason i dont have a system or slips yet is because there is nothing out. If you look at some past threads im the guy who speaks to akra about once a month and i would prefer not to spend on a Stainless Steal header. thats my delema. really do i want to spend all that money for 20mm more. Actually i am leaning toward slips but if there is a good argument for full i will do full.
3)caliduck. you have to respect this guy. look at his bike. look at the work and money he has invested in it. Now i know not everyone has the means to get it but he puts his money where his mouth is. Anybody can say get this or that and not really have anything this guy recommends what he actually buys. Have to respect that and stop posting all those pics of that bike everytime you do you cost me more money lol.

i just reread my post i k now the grammar police will be coming for me sorry.