Ongoing clutch issues

Ducati Forum

Help Support Ducati Forum:

Definitely not color related. 3100 miles on mine and I've only had to bleed clutch when I had the reservoir fluids changed. Aside from that, never had to bleed clutch since ownership.

Stw just got wiser n changed colors :)
 
I have almost 13,000 miles on my 2013 R and this has been a annoyance with my bike.

The very experienced Ducati mechanic who does most of my work finally came up with a very sensible diagnosis: the root of the problem is the engine heat and the routing of the clutch fluid line. The clutch fluid gets very, very hot.

It gets so hot that no matter what you do you will get gas/air in the line.

So, a partial solution is to replace the clutch fluid with the very expensive high spec clutch fluid that can handle higher temps longer. It will still eventually get gas/air in it. But in my experience it was a huge improvement.

Since I made the switch I haven't had to bleed the clutch as frequently and the rate at which it degrades it slower and more predictable.

Frankly, I think that other than re-routing the clutch hydraulic line away from the engine the only approach that reliably works is to change to a higher spec fluid, bleed from time to time and replace the fluid pretty regularly.

Steve
 
roadster said:
I have almost 13,000 miles on my 2013 R and this has been a annoyance with my bike.

The very experienced Ducati mechanic who does most of my work finally came up with a very sensible diagnosis: the root of the problem is the engine heat and the routing of the clutch fluid line. The clutch fluid gets very, very hot.

It gets so hot that no matter what you do you will get gas/air in the line.

So, a partial solution is to replace the clutch fluid with the very expensive high spec clutch fluid that can handle higher temps longer. It will still eventually get gas/air in it. But in my experience it was a huge improvement.

Since I made the switch I haven't had to bleed the clutch as frequently and the rate at which it degrades it slower and more predictable.

Frankly, I think that other than re-routing the clutch hydraulic line away from the engine the only approach that reliably works is to change to a higher spec fluid, bleed from time to time and replace the fluid pretty regularly.

Steve
Click to expand...

Maybe it's climate related - People have the problem are riding for extended periods of time in warmer climates. :confused:
 
Hey Steve

Just my 2 Cents (I already wrote in some other threads on this forum):
- very low probability that a new 3rd party slave cylinder (e.g. Oberon, CNC racing, STM etc) is faulty. And they are all anodized or even hard anodized, so polishing makes no sense
- I dont think that the type of (fresh) fluid has a major impact
- Leaks in the clutch lines should be visible if there are any
- Just to make sure, during analysis phase I pull out the push rod and look for any mechanical damage...

So, what's left: Master Cylinder. I had this "Brembo Master Cylinder Internal Bleeding" issue this year on my GFs new Monster 1200S (same cylinder as on the Pani). "My" mechanic gave me an old cylinder just for checking (I didn't believe him that this could be the problem). But any bleeding issue went away immediately after exchange.
Master Cylinder was then replaced by Ducati under warranty. No Problems since then.
(I know you hate this Phrase :) )
 
Check out my thread with photos in it. It's a blue fluid but has a higher boiling point which my local shop uses for their race bikes. Plus it's blue. Of course I had to use it. I posted a photo of the sticker on the container. Don't remember the name.
 
Hoping that the 2015 1299, 1299S and the Pani R don't have this problem.

With the frequent line bleeding being an issue and with Ducati likely having knowledge of this issue (assuming yes), hopefully something design wise or choice of fluid addresses the issue.
 
From my post on an earlier thread on this topic:

"We replaced the standard brake fluid with Brembo Racing brake fluid"

Because the higher spec fluid has a higher boiling point it helps--it takes longer for it to begin to release gas into the fluid. But depending on the amount of riding and kind of riding you do the heat is so intense off of the engine and onto the clutch fluid line that you will eventually have to bleed--and eventually replace the fluid. This "eventually" may never come if you don't ride all that much, or don't ride in circumstances where the engine gets very hot for an extended period.

Also in my experience, if you only race the bike or ride it only at the track this is rarely an issue as well because you don't really need to use the clutch all that much.

In any case, the Brembo Racing brake fluid really helps--but it doesn't completely eliminate the problem.

I think the only thing that will completely eliminate the issue if you ride a lot and in circumstances where the engine gets nice and hot for a while would be to re-route the line--not something I'm interested in doing.

I completely believe that there are some crappy Brembo clutch master cylinders out there--but frankly I don't think that is the main source of the problem for most of us.

I wouldn't hold my breath on Ducati fixing this on the 1299. :)

Steve
 
roadster said:
From my post on an earlier thread on this topic:

"We replaced the standard brake fluid with Brembo Racing brake fluid"

Because the higher spec fluid has a higher boiling point it helps--it takes longer for it to begin to release gas into the fluid. But depending on the amount of riding and kind of riding you do the heat is so intense off of the engine and onto the clutch fluid line that you will eventually have to bleed--and eventually replace the fluid. This "eventually" may never come if you don't ride all that much, or don't ride in circumstances where the engine gets very hot for an extended period.

Also in my experience, if you only race the bike or ride it only at the track this is rarely an issue as well because you don't really need to use the clutch all that much.

In any case, the Brembo Racing brake fluid really helps--but it doesn't completely eliminate the problem.

I think the only thing that will completely eliminate the issue if you ride a lot and in circumstances where the engine gets nice and hot for a while would be to re-route the line--not something I'm interested in doing.

I completely believe that there are some crappy Brembo clutch master cylinders out there--but frankly I don't think that is the main source of the problem for most of us.

I wouldn't hold my breath on Ducati fixing this on the 1299. :)

Steve
Click to expand...

Interesting - I ride in hot weather, but don't use the clutch much at all.

Just needed the one little burp @ 1500-miles (clutch, obviously) :p
 
acowsik said:
Hoping that the 2015 1299, 1299S and the Pani R don't have this problem.

With the frequent line bleeding being an issue and with Ducati likely having knowledge of this issue (assuming yes), hopefully something design wise or choice of fluid addresses the issue.
Click to expand...

Don't count on it. This has been a recurring issue with Ducati hydraulic clutches since at least the early 90's.

Aside from the occasional seal failure in the slave cylinder necessitating an actual repair, most people riding Ducs that long learned long ago to just make it a regular point of periodic maintenance and change out the fluid. I bought a mity-vac years ago and it's something I do every couple of months. 5 minutes and a $1 worth of fluid and your done.
 
Charliem90 said:
Don't count on it. This has been a recurring issue with Ducati hydraulic clutches since at least the early 90's.

Aside from the occasional seal failure in the slave cylinder necessitating an actual repair, most people riding Ducs that long learned long ago to just make it a regular point of periodic maintenance and change out the fluid. I bought a mity-vac years ago and it's something I do every couple of months. 5 minutes and a $1 worth of fluid and your done.
Click to expand...

If my issue was an "every couple of months " thing I would have no worries...But its every damn ride.... Sunday my ride was approx 145 miles..it was 80 degrees....so not a long ride and not hot...At the end of the ride no neutral...Ugh...
 
On a related note after my last service I noticed that the brake and clutch fluid that we're used by the dealer were green! First time I've seen that, wonder if they've changed because of the same problem.
 
Stw said:
Its been suggested to me ...that its "user error" ....:rolleyes:
Click to expand...


I would ignore that advice.

Remember when you get that drama with not enough clutch action out on the road, remember you can adjust it out with the handlebar adjuster for more pull just to get you home. (Sorry if you are already doing that)

Not sure if I mentioned I just found the dirt seal on mine (o ring) broken on my bike when I removed the slave to pull the front sprocket off.
 
Last edited:
ScrapperX said:
Went with Brembo RCS-16 MC, Oberon Slave, Galfer lines and haven't bled my clutch since. That was approx 6K miles ago.
Click to expand...

Afters some searching, I'm glad I found this thread.

My '13 1199 S managed to get through a Thunderhill track day back in Jan. Now with 1300 miles, I've lost some clutch pull pressure on the last session at Laguna yesterday.

My 1098 suffered the same issue so I went with an Oberon clutch slave and haven't had an issue since on 10 + track days. So I've read that some 1199 owners went with Oberon and are still having to bleed it periodically.

Did you replace all 3 of them at the same time or did you change in sequential order?
 
Just to add as information, my bike has 7500 miles and has never had to have the clutch bled. I ride in the Houston area and have done several 300 plus mile days. On the other hand, the brakes need bleeding every so often but I have not kept track of miles. I'd say every 1,000 or so.
 
RRnold said:
Afters some searching, I'm glad I found this thread.

My '13 1199 S managed to get through a Thunderhill track day back in Jan. Now with 1300 miles, I've lost some clutch pull pressure on the last session at Laguna yesterday.

My 1098 suffered the same issue so I went with an Oberon clutch slave and haven't had an issue since on 10 + track days. So I've read that some 1199 owners went with Oberon and are still having to bleed it periodically.

Did you replace all 3 of them at the same time or did you change in sequential order?
Click to expand...

Changed the RCS 16 first and I didn't need to bleed it after that. Changed to the Oberon to get a softer feel/pull. The Galfers brake line was changed due to the brake calipers being changed out to the Brembo GP4's. Galfers threw in the clutch lines for free so the could write install instructions and get measurements for the Panigale. So far 10K miles on them and I haven't bleed my brakes and clutch lines.
 
jjsC6 said:
Just to add as information, my bike has 7500 miles and has never had to have the clutch bled. I ride in the Houston area and have done several 300 plus mile days. On the other hand, the brakes need bleeding every so often but I have not kept track of miles. I'd say every 1,000 or so.
Click to expand...

Jim, are those 7500 miles mostly from street riding? I think more aggressive riding would trigger the clutch needing to be bled.

As I mentioned, I was at Laguna Seca yesterday and was mashing on the bike, putting the DQS to full use.

ScrapperX said:
Changed the RCS 16 first and I didn't need to bleed it after that. Changed to the Oberon to get a softer feel/pull. The Galfers brake line was changed due to the brake calipers being changed out to the Brembo GP4's. Galfers threw in the clutch lines for free so the could write install instructions and get measurements for the Panigale. So far 10K miles on them and I haven't bleed my brakes and clutch lines.
Click to expand...

Right on! I'm debating on if I should do the temp fix now by turning the bleed screw 1 turn to get any air bubbles out and keep the same fluid and parts. Or completely drain the fluid and use this opportunity to replace the slave, install speed bleeders and a RCS MC since I'm going to Thill April 4th.
 

Similar threads

Alsky
Leaking Bleed Screws
Replies
2
Views
151
akai
A
A
Clutch Fade When Hot
Replies
15
Views
483
jackyff8
jackyff8
Alsky
Leaking bleed screw when bleeding brakes
Replies
3
Views
179
Alsky
Alsky
S
need some schooling on new MC's...
Replies
4
Views
295
SirJAG
S
R
Clutch Master Micro Switch: What Does it Do?
Replies
8
Views
1K
elements018
E

Register CTA

Register on Ducati Forum! This sidebar will go away, and you will see fewer ads.

Recent Discussions

Back
Top