Ongoing clutch issues

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I've had a similar issue with my Yamaha. I solved the issue with several changes. I improved the mating of the reservoir to the master, rerouted the lines, and when I change the fluid, I move the lever out, pull it to the bar and tie it with a zip (as the other lister mentioned) letting it sit for period of time. Then I crack open the upper most fitting on the line and bubble the air out. I change out the washers every every year (or at least I did).

You might try feeding the line through a thermal tube. I've seen on some applications where the line is wrapped with a water line in a common sleeve.

You might fine this product useful:
McMaster-Carr
 
Im not sure how mechanically inclined ya'll are. But I had a few problems on my S4R and now on my 1199R for both the brake and clutch with both bikes. I pulled off the stock slaves and replace all the seals with some real nice replacements that are .5mm thicker material. I think they are rubber/copper compound so they fit real nice and as it warms up it seals and scrubs to keep from leaking. it took a few hours to remove and replace all the seals but I haven't had a single problem since on both bikes. and it really only cost $5 USD plus shipping.
 
gobozo said:
I've had a similar issue with my Yamaha. I solved the issue with several changes. I improved the mating of the reservoir to the master, rerouted the lines, and when I change the fluid, I move the lever out, pull it to the bar and tie it with a zip (as the other lister mentioned) letting it sit for period of time. Then I crack open the upper most fitting on the line and bubble the air out. I change out the washers every every year (or at least I did).

You might try feeding the line through a thermal tube. I've seen on some applications where the line is wrapped with a water line in a common sleeve.

You might fine this product useful:
McMaster-Carr
Click to expand...

In regards to relocating, do you think the orig line from the reservoir to the master cyl and the reservoir itself could be an issue?

The reason why I ask is during my 1st trackday back in Jan on the Pani, I had fluid which looked like it came from the clutch reservoir that splattered on the windscreen and display from vibration. I quickly cleaned it off after my session and was lucky that it didn't eat anything up except for the stock windscreen.
 
RRnold said:
Jim, are those 7500 miles mostly from street riding? I think more aggressive riding would trigger the clutch needing to be bled.

As I mentioned, I was at Laguna Seca yesterday and was mashing on the bike, putting the DQS to full use.



Right on! I'm debating on if I should do the temp fix now by turning the bleed screw 1 turn to get any air bubbles out and keep the same fluid and parts. Or completely drain the fluid and use this opportunity to replace the slave, install speed bleeders and a RCS MC since I'm going to Thill April 4th.
Click to expand...

It's all street riding. And anyone who knows the Houston area knows that we have to do a lot of open road cruising to get to the good roads. I agree it's easy riding for many miles. I just wish the brakes knew the same thing. I just had my 7500 mile service done the other day with a full fluid replacement of both clutch and brakes. It will be interesting to see how the brakes hold up now.
 
RRnold said:
In regards to relocating, do you think the orig line from the reservoir to the master cyl and the reservoir itself could be an issue?

The reason why I ask is during my 1st trackday back in Jan on the Pani, I had fluid which looked like it came from the clutch reservoir that splattered on the windscreen and display from vibration. I quickly cleaned it off after my session and was lucky that it didn't eat anything up except for the stock windscreen.
Click to expand...

That's what I noticed as well.
 
Torque, Castrol SRF, Motul 660, preferred brake fluid in that order. My MV cooks the rear brake fluid within 500 miles riding in city with the original fluid. I put Motul 660 in it and it lasts much longer. Moving to Torque brake fluid on next bleed as it has even higher thermal limits. Unconfirmed, but I hear there is a service bulletin on clutch issues although in 15,000 of riding on my Pani S 2014, I've had no issues with the clutch. The front brakes got some air after 7000miles but a simple bleed took care of that. The rear brake is the best I have ever used and stays cool by design, with the master mounted to the rearset. Overall, the 2014 Pani is very very good, especially when there is a good shop to support it. Can't say the same for MV at the moment. Can't wait till there are more service centers for MV... YMMV
 
Just a follow up. I forgot who posted it but he mentioned not bleeding it and to just crack the zerk screw a full turn to release the air.

I did that an low n behold an air pop came out when I pumped the clutch lever and clutch pressure returned back to normal.
 
The idea when you bleed is that when fluid is coming out of the fitting that is when you close it...so its sealed.

I can't imagine motorcycle hydraulic systems are THAT different than cars. My GMC Envoy hasn't had a brake line opened in the entire time I've owned it.

If you're getting air introduced into the system, bleeding it isn't fixing it, its treating it.
 
bp7178 said:
The idea when you bleed is that when fluid is coming out of the fitting that is when you close it...so its sealed.

I can't imagine motorcycle hydraulic systems are THAT different than cars. My GMC Envoy hasn't had a brake line opened in the entire time I've owned it.

If you're getting air introduced into the system, bleeding it isn't fixing it, its treating it.
Click to expand...

This is the post I was talking about. It worked for me. On to Thunderhill!!

Apparently it's been an ongoing issue since the 916's so don't hate on me for ongoing ...... engineering.

http://ducati1299.com/mechanical-te...r-clutch-master-cylinder-pics.html#post193609
 
All these stories about clutch issues and I've yet to experience this. I've swapped fluids once about 1500-2000 miles ago and didn't have issues with before that or since. I'm probably jinxing it right now as i type this lol. 3500 miles on the clock and never bled the clutch aside from the fluid change.
 
Gecko said:
Hey Steve

Just my 2 Cents (I already wrote in some other threads on this forum):
- very low probability that a new 3rd party slave cylinder (e.g. Oberon, CNC racing, STM etc) is faulty. And they are all anodized or even hard anodized, so polishing makes no sense
- I dont think that the type of (fresh) fluid has a major impact
- Leaks in the clutch lines should be visible if there are any
- Just to make sure, during analysis phase I pull out the push rod and look for any mechanical damage...

So, what's left: Master Cylinder. I had this "Brembo Master Cylinder Internal Bleeding" issue this year on my GFs new Monster 1200S (same cylinder as on the Pani). "My" mechanic gave me an old cylinder just for checking (I didn't believe him that this could be the problem). But any bleeding issue went away immediately after exchange.
Master Cylinder was then replaced by Ducati under warranty. No Problems since then.
(I know you hate this Phrase :) )
Click to expand...

Wait, the Monster 1200S has the same master as the 1199S? I have both bikes and my Monster has NOT had any issues with the clutch.

If this is true, I'm going to swap the master and see if that makes a difference.

On my 1199, I've already tried two different slaves (Oberon and currently the CNC), replaced the bleeders/washers, and tried various fluids.

Next step was to replace the clutch master with an aftermarket brembo but if the master from my monster works as well on my 1199 as it did on the monster, then maybe that would fix it. It'll also be interesting to observe if my monster starts to get air in the system after the swap...
 
double0 said:
All these stories about clutch issues and I've yet to experience this. I've swapped fluids once about 1500-2000 miles ago and didn't have issues with before that or since. I'm probably jinxing it right now as i type this lol. 3500 miles on the clock and never bled the clutch aside from the fluid change.
Click to expand...

What do those 1500-2000 miles consist of?

In my case, the first 900 miles were street and good pace canyon riding, no issues.

I went to Thunderhill in Jan and had some clutch fluid splatter on the windscreen and display. I then went to Laguna Seca several weeks ago and than lost the clutch pressure on my last session.

So it seems as the aggressive track day riding, crappy reservoir support bracket and high engine temps could be the culprit since the line from the MC to the slave runs along the engine.
 
Mostly commuting and very light canyon runs.

I highly doubt that everyone who is experiencing clutch issues is doing hard days at the track. I think this is just like every other problem we experience with this bike. Some never see those problems and others experience every last common problem with the bike.
 
RRnold said:
What do those 1500-2000 miles consist of?

In my case, the first 900 miles were street and good pace canyon riding, no issues.

I went to Thunderhill in Jan and had some clutch fluid splatter on the windscreen and display. I then went to Laguna Seca several weeks ago and than lost the clutch pressure on my last session.

So it seems as the aggressive track day riding, crappy reservoir support bracket and high engine temps could be the culprit since the line from the MC to the slave runs along the engine.
Click to expand...

You hit on something I have wondered about for quite a while. The reservoirs shake like a son of a bitch almost constantly because or the piss-ant brackets. My dealer loaned me his own 899 demo while my bike was in for service recently. He had put the Ducati Performance reservoirs on his and they where night and day firmer than the stock brackets.
 
jjsC6 said:
You hit on something I have wondered about for quite a while. The reservoirs shake like a son of a bitch almost constantly because or the piss-ant brackets. My dealer loaned me his own 899 demo while my bike was in for service recently. He had put the Ducati Performance reservoirs on his and they where night and day firmer than the stock brackets.
Click to expand...

Did the brackets look different?
 
bp7178 said:
Do the DP reservoirs come with different brackets? I thought only the body was different.

What is different about the brackets if they are upgraded?
Click to expand...

RRnold said:
Did the brackets look different?
Click to expand...

They were completely different brackets and even mounted differently. In fairness, is was an 899 and for all I know the stock ones could be different than the 1199 - I didn't go look at one. I tried to look up the DP reservoirs the other day to see what they cost, but so far I have not even been able to find them for the 1199. I may shoot my dealer an e-mail and ask about the cost of them and a link to where I can see them.

Okay, here is a picture I found of an 899. This has the same brackets as mine. The DP bracket attached to the two pinch bolts at the top of the fork leg on the triple tree.
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/d1wNVAoPxjQ/maxresdefault.jpg
 
Last edited:
MikeLee7 said:
Wait, the Monster 1200S has the same master as the 1199S? I have both bikes and my Monster has NOT had any issues with the clutch.

If this is true, I'm going to swap the master and see if that makes a difference.

On my 1199, I've already tried two different slaves (Oberon and currently the CNC), replaced the bleeders/washers, and tried various fluids.

Next step was to replace the clutch master with an aftermarket brembo but if the master from my monster works as well on my 1199 as it did on the monster, then maybe that would fix it. It'll also be interesting to observe if my monster starts to get air in the system after the swap...
Click to expand...

I don't know whether it's exactly the same (it looks very similar), but if you're handy you can swap the master cylinders just to find out whether your problems are caused by this "internal bleeding" (that's what swiss ducati master tech is referring the problem). It's well known and has obviously never been adressed/fixed by brembo (I guess it's a cost issue).

I run oberon on three bikes (SL, Monster 1200S, and MV F4), and CNC racing on the 1199 Tricolore. They all work perfect.
 

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