Panigales

outhouse said:

But in reality

The 1199 has the very best of both worlds no other bike offers.

Small bike lightness and flickability, and liter bike power.


It makes your statement null and void.

Click to expand...

You make a valid point. but it's quite narrow in focus.
It's not all about the weight of the bike.
It's got more to do with the total available power, and how one is able to access it. And in what format the power is facilitated.

Yes it certainly has small bike lightness with Liter bike power.
But the equation is out of kilter. IMO there's a certain lack of balance in the power to weight package which makes all that power largely inaccessible.
In essence it's better to be able to spin a smaller engine up to higher revs and keep it there to achieve the same result in performance.

The point I'm trying to make is sadly, it's virtually impossible to get into the meat of the revs and available power with the 1199 engine most of the time.
Unless you're exclusively on the track and a top level rider to go with it.

That's why I believe a 750 would be really nice in a Pani.
But we will have to put up with the 899 capacity instead.
Which is still fine by me

EvoL said:

Plus the 899 is heavier.

Click to expand...

That's the thing I don't get.
They've deliberately gone out of their way to make it heavier than the 1199.

I honestly think if it was the same weight as the 1199 then it would be an outstanding machine.
I suppose it's to keep cost down, and not encroach upon the 1199's weight advantage in the market place to help maintain the 1199's price point.

I'd still rather have the 899 over the 1199 base though.
Maybe they'll bring out a lighter version in an evo or something later on.

Hello, I was going to order a new 899 soon, but now I have the choice between a almost new basic 1199 for the same price and warranty until july '14. Now since the price is almost the same, is there any good reason to buy a new 899 instead of the basic 1199?
I will be using the bike almost every day, so not just on roads where you can have fun.
What would you do? Any reason to go for the smaller one?

899:
+1.5 more years of warranty
+ easier to ride (is it really more userfriendly??)
+ more comfortable (why? same ergonomics..)

RoyTakaay said:

Hello, I was going to order a new 899 soon, but now I have the choice between a almost new basic 1199 for the same price and warranty until july '14. Now since the price is almost the same, is there any good reason to buy a new 899 instead of the basic 1199?
I will be using the bike almost every day, so not just on roads where you can have fun.
What would you do? Any reason to go for the smaller one?

899:
+1.5 more years of warranty
+ easier to ride (is it really more userfriendly??)
+ more comfortable (why? same ergonomics..)

Click to expand...

I would go with the 1199 otherwise you will want more power later on

I'm just a little nosy why you sell a 1199 after 3000km...
Main problems I should be looking for are leaking oil?
Does the thicker seat help to reduce the heat?
well the 899 may have the same / other problems...

I believe the 899 will be a good canyon and track bike for some. I love my 1199 for various reasons, it's a light bike it's right smack in the middle of the weight category in the 600cc class, low center of gravity, awesome power of a liter bike, DTC, EBC ABS, etc so you get the benefits of both worlds. But the truth be told its a very hard bike to tame and it takes some serious practice. Why? because on the track or canyons the power/torque of the 1199 amplifies any mistakes you make period. Although the bike is very agile, light and has excellent brakes to make corrections but it will cost you your lap times on the track and for the canyons well, that that cliff without the guard rail is always on the back of your mind. I'm not sure how many 1199 owners on this forum here besides Wilkinson really push their envelope with this bike but if you do you know what I mean. Mark will probably enjoy this but the HP4 for a liter bike is an easier bike to ride due to the linear power delivery but it's still heavy and you have to muscle it around a bit and to me it's not as fun. The 1199 takes every bit of concentration where as the 899 would have more usable torque/power for the weekend warrior to do weekend canyon runs or track. But if you're somewhat a serious track day junky the 1199 is the only way to go. I'll still ride a GSXR 750 track bike and I can go balls to the walls without concentrating as much as I do on the 1199.

i disagree. it's all in your right hand.
with the difference, that at the 899, there is a physical limitation.

for example: when i ride the twisties, i ride the 1199 in 2nd and 3rd between 3k and 7k rpm. you can go the same speed with the 899, difference is, to be in this power range of the motor, you might need to be at higher rpms or a lower gear. (assuming similar, but weaker motor characteristics)

on longer stretches, i can go WFO on the 1199 and get the excitement out of it, where the 899 might not give me the similar kick - that's based on me, knowing the 1199. others without this comparison might get the same kick of the 899, not knowing the ridiculous power of the bigger version pulling on your helmet.

and for the "rather 899 than the base 1199" argument:

yes. sure.

Phil said:

i disagree. it's all in your right hand.
with the difference, that at the 899, there is a physical limitation.

for example: when i ride the twisties, i ride the 1199 in 2nd and 3rd between 3k and 7k rpm. you can go the same speed with the 899, difference is, to be in this power range of the motor, you might need to be at higher rpms or a lower gear. (assuming similar, but weaker motor characteristics)

on longer stretches, i can go WFO on the 1199 and get the excitement out of it, where the 899 might not give me the similar kick - that's based on me, knowing the 1199. others without this comparison might get the same kick of the 899, not knowing the ridiculous power of the bigger version pulling on your helmet.

and for the "rather 899 than the base 1199" argument:

yes. sure.

Click to expand...

That's what I thought too... the 1199 should be able to do exactly the same the 899 does just in a higher gear/lower rpm.. and the only reason the 899 can have a better handling is because the 180/60 tire, or is there something else?

you mean rather 1199 than 899? or was that ironical

Brad said:

I'd still rather have the 899 over the 1199 base though.

Click to expand...

that's where i was pointing

haven't ridden the 899 yet, but based on my personal preferences i'd go 1199 over 899 all time.

Phil said:

i disagree. it's all in your right hand.
with the difference, that at the 899, there is a physical limitation.

for example: when i ride the twisties, i ride the 1199 in 2nd and 3rd between 3k and 7k rpm. you can go the same speed with the 899, difference is, to be in this power range of the motor, you might need to be at higher rpms or a lower gear. (assuming similar, but weaker motor characteristics)

on longer stretches, i can go WFO on the 1199 and get the excitement out of it, where the 899 might not give me the similar kick - that's based on me, knowing the 1199. others without this comparison might get the same kick of the 899, not knowing the ridiculous power of the bigger version pulling on your helmet.

and for the "rather 899 than the base 1199" argument:

yes. sure.

Click to expand...

You are absolutely correct! Riding this thing through the caynons 3-7 K is right before the turbo boost that kicks in @8K I usually 6-9k due to the speed I'm riding at in 2nd and 3rd but just a lil bit more twist in 2nd than you wanted as you roll on through the turn in a max lean and the bike hits 8k and bucks like a stallion and says "SURPRISE! I scared the ....... .... out you didn't I? That could make a difference in holding your line. I don't believe the 899 would have that type of power or torque that would throw you off that line you are trying to hold. It's takes some getting use to and practice well at least for me when I first rode this beast. With I4 the power comes on much linear you know what you're going to get as you twist the throttle.

Brad said:

IMO, it's not all about the outright power potential.
Sure, there's no replacement for displacement and all that sort of thing.
Also I acknowledge that history will always favour the coveted.
But there's more to it than that.
A mid capacity bike (600-750) is easier to ride faster in general terms.
It's about the balance of the package. Potentially more enjoyable?

To be honest I always thought that I would rather have the Pani in a smaller engine capacity right from the start. A 750 would be nice
But I had to take it with the 1199 engine as it was first released, and I really didn't think they would release a smaller engine for it. So 1199 it was.
I very much look forward to test riding the 899 though.
Not that I will ever sell the 1199

Click to expand...

See, that thinking held up back when a middleweight bike actually was lighter, had smaller engine cases, more compact/quicker geometry, and potentially less engine braking and smoother throttle control than an open class monster.

What we have here in the 899, however, seems to offer up none of these advantages. The weight is the same or greater, and the geometry should be roughly the same. The engine braking on 1199 is adjustable, and throttle control is impeccable. The only thing different is -40 hp. I'm going to ride my shop's demo 899 as soon as possible (saw it last night) and see for myself.

Now, on the flip side of the argument, looking at my telemetry from the track bike, I find that I am very rarely using over 50% throttle in most sections of the tracks, and only reach 100% throttle opening down the main straight. I'd estimate that the 1199 will be able to gobble 2-3 seconds per lap out of the main straight over the 899, but everywhere else on the track will be similar.

The 899 is a good bike for guys who want a superbike but not ready for a big boys bike yet .

Brad said:

The point I'm trying to make is sadly, it's virtually impossible to get into the meat of the revs and available power with the 1199 engine most of the time.
Unless you're exclusively on the track and a top level rider to go with it.

Click to expand...

Brad, this is a super subjective statement, depending on rider skill and riding environment.

The 1199 reacts to rider throttle input as required. The key parameter is the rider and what percentage of performance he is good enough to use in any given situation.

Fact of the matter is that ANY rider is going to use MORE of the total performance available on an 899, than if he was on an 1199. i.e. good guys will hit the performance ceiling on an 899 much earlier than on 1199.

Personally, I like to wheelie out of 2nd/3rd gear turns and feel the front life over crests in 4th. I can't see me getting that buzz on an 899

FWIW, I have a friend who eclipses my riding skill. He has show many riders the "way around the mountain" at the Isle of Man on his Repsol Blade.... he similarly complains how hard it is to rev the thing in more confined environments. Ce la vie my friend.

ScrapperX said:

I believe the 899 will be a good canyon and track bike for some. I love my 1199 for various reasons, it's a light bike it's right smack in the middle of the weight category in the 600cc class, low center of gravity, awesome power of a liter bike, DTC, EBC ABS, etc so you get the benefits of both worlds. But the truth be told its a very hard bike to tame and it takes some serious practice. Why? because on the track or canyons the power/torque of the 1199 amplifies any mistakes you make period. Although the bike is very agile, light and has excellent brakes to make corrections but it will cost you your lap times on the track and for the canyons well, that that cliff without the guard rail is always on the back of your mind. I'm not sure how many 1199 owners on this forum here besides Wilkinson really push their envelope with this bike but if you do you know what I mean. Mark will probably enjoy this but the HP4 for a liter bike is an easier bike to ride due to the linear power delivery but it's still heavy and you have to muscle it around a bit and to me it's not as fun. The 1199 takes every bit of concentration where as the 899 would have more usable torque/power for the weekend warrior to do weekend canyon runs or track. But if you're somewhat a serious track day junky the 1199 is the only way to go. I'll still ride a GSXR 750 track bike and I can go balls to the walls without concentrating as much as I do on the 1199.

Click to expand...

I'd second that. I am a canyon rider and I, for the first time, am considering the fact that liter bikes are too much. Some of our twisties are VERY twisty, and puts me in the bad situation to be extremely low in RPM in 2nd, or trying to hold a steady pace in first. And I don't know about others, but my 1st is so torquey (even with EBC 3), holding a steady pace at about 4k rpm is impossible and needs to be either accelerating or decelerating. I hop on my wife’s 675R and it is so much easier to ride it is crazy, and can stay in 2nd holding decent RPMs even in super tight switchbacks.

Denver Rick said:

I'd second that. I am a canyon rider and I, for the first time, am considering the fact that liter bikes are too much. Some of our twisties are VERY twisty, and puts me in the bad situation to be extremely low in RPM in 2nd, or trying to hold a steady pace in first. And I don't know about others, but my 1st is so torquey (even with EBC 3), holding a steady pace at about 4k rpm is impossible and needs to be either accelerating or decelerating. I hop on my wife's 675R and it is so much easier to ride it is crazy, and can stay in 2nd holding decent RPMs even in super tight switchbacks.

Click to expand...

Is it not a case of "horses for courses" ???(English expression)..meaning that for tight technical courses/roads a supersport is always going to be better and quicker than a litre bike.... But its hardly a reason to "complain"..its simply that the power (lack of..) and the shorter wheelbase of 600ish bike means its in its element in that situation...Litre bikes are never too much for me.. I just ride wider bends..It is Texas after all....

899 vs 1199s

It was my 25th birthday yesterday when I went out to testride the 899 and the 1199s back to back.
My first Impressions seeing the two bikes standing next to each other:
The white 899 looks very nice, but not at all exactly like the 1199. Beside the SSSA the rear suspention is a lot "thicker" on the 1199 and the front looks a bit more agressive and wider than the front of the 899 (it could be the color that makes the difference, but I think it's not exactly the same).
The first thing I noticed on the 899 when starting the engine: this is soooo loud!!!! (it felt even louder than the 1199)
It can actually be annoying having a too loud motorcycle!
The display isn't as easy to read than the one on the 1199 but after a little while you get used to it.
The Quickshifter is fantastic and the EBC works brilliant.
Compared to the 1199, the 899 might be a bit better in handling but otherwise, you really feel that they tried to make it cheaper. It's not easier to drive at all. If you once have high rpm there is a lot of power, but my 675 feels like it has more power all the way. Well the 899 feels a lot slower than it actually is if you take a look at the tachometer, so it might be just an illusion. But from a 899 twin I was expecting a bit more than that.
Also, in low rpm the 1199 felt a lot smoother what I didn't expect. So for every day use, the 1199 with a comfort seat does the job as good as the 899.
About the heat: I felt a little more heat on the 899 than on the 1199 after riding 30min of each, despite the 899 has some extra plastic covering the cylinder head and a thicker seat. But it was getting cooler later on when I was driving the 1199.

After riding both, I would say that if you can get the 1199 for almost the same price than the 899 you should get the 1199. It's as easy to handle and you don't have the lack of power in low rpm. The 899 is a fantastic motorcycle but in my opinion a bit overpriced for it's performance (due to the dealer they might get cheaper next year). It just doesn't feel like a bike for that price. Yes, the 899 is a very good looking bike with tremendous sound and the electronics are great. But after riding the 1199, you won't be happy with the 899. I just didn't like the rpm range from 2000-8000 where even the daytona triple feels a lot stronger.

I am trying to find a slightly used basic 1199 for almost the price of a new 899. I probably would only replace my 675 with the 899 if they would cost about the same.

hope that helps you

Buy the 1199 if you can swing it.

Where are you intending to move to when you get out? If in the deep south, consider the heat though.

Otherwise, go with the 1199.

Ok...I spent all my day checking this forum...wow!

My dad was an Italian with a lot of love and passion for motorcycles.

For me it's really simple decision:

The Panigale 1199 = Kinda you are F*** the mother of your girl friend. With big ....s super wet pu*** and all the dream that a hot mom can give to you...baby!

The Panigale 889 = It is the daughter of the hot mom, fresh ....s, not super wet pu*** yet but still a lot of dreams.

They both goes fast but the mom has more experience. They can make corners really nice, maybe the daughter has a little advantage because is smaller. Both are beautiful and you can not go wrong!

Go to a dealer and sit on the bike...you will feel what will be the best for you. It's all about the love and feelings...It's an Italian bike baby! Enjoy the dream!

zx7md said:

Ok...I spent all my day checking this forum...wow!

My dad was an Italian with a lot of love and passion for motorcycles.

For me it's really simple decision:

The Panigale 1199 = Kinda you are F*** the mother of your girl friend. With big ....s super wet pu*** and all the dream that a hot mommy can give to you...baby!

The Panigale 889 = It is the daughter of the hot mommy, fresh ....s, not super wet pu*** yet but still a lot of dreams.

They both goes fast but the mommy has more experience. The can make corners really nice, maybe the daughter has a little advantage because is smaller. Both are beautiful and you can not go wrong!

Click to expand...

Awesome !!

Realprop said:

Awesome !!

Click to expand...

Awesome?? My first thought after reading that was that someone has some really weird mommy issues.