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Paul G said:
Interesting perspective, WSBK to me is fantastic to watch at the moment with the top three fighting it out, we are lucky to be around to watch it. I am always amused when people say they are bored when a master is in form like Rea or Marquez has been in the past, its like saying Hailwood was boring. As always the art is in the eye of the beholder. People forget the utter domination or various Manu's throughout history as well as riders, we dont want lefty socialist racing where all the kids get a prize for existing and anyone can win, whats the point?
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Also an interesting perspective.

I’m inclined to agree that wsbk (and MotoGP) are both entertaining right now, but regarding season dominant performances (like Rea and Marquez in the past), to me they become boring because the element of suspense is almost entirely removed. In essence, it removes actual “racing” from racing. If a focus on individual exceptionalism is what most people find entertaining, then they should consider structuring wsbk and MotoGP races like World Rally Car or TT events, and just run back to back individual time trials instead of heads-up racing.
 
To me MotoGP and WSBK can have their breakout stars and still be entertaining. The media director just needs to step in and say "Quarteraro/Marquez/Bastia/Rea/Bau/Toprak have ...... off and are way ahead. Let's find a good fight for a lower position to show the audience and check back in occasionally on the front runner".
 
endodoc said:
I would say, why bother. Fragility would be a consideration I would think. No perimeter frame/SSSA and in general “just my opinion” (always have to put that disclaimer in) the brand seems to take a lot more of everything to make it competitive. Seems like if Corse isn’t behind it and funding it, it’s a non starter. I think it takes far less resources to go fast on something else and there are a lot more resources/go fast parts for BMW/Kawasaki and Yamaha readily available for non factory funded riders.
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BMW, Honda, and Kawasaki seem to be the front runners at the TT. All normally firing in-line 4s. Yamaha with its cross plane crank is a little off the pace historically at the TT since it suffers from excessive fuel consumption (but not as bad as an V4) and lack of top speed.

There aren’t very many V4s that have done well at the TT let alone endurance racing. The monster RC213V which was run in the 2016 TT only could muster an 8th. Note that you also don’t see Aprilia in the TT. The V4 is just a thirsty beast.

Addendum:
After combing through some stats, only Norton (Norton!!!!) have been able to get a V4 around the Mountain Course competitively with an RSV motor w Josh Brookes in 2017 in 6th in the Senior
 
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craig bush said:
Also an interesting perspective.

I’m inclined to agree that wsbk (and MotoGP) are both entertaining right now, but regarding season dominant performances (like Rea and Marquez in the past), to me they become boring because the element of suspense is almost entirely removed. In essence, it removes actual “racing” from racing. If a focus on individual exceptionalism is what most people find entertaining, then they should consider structuring wsbk and MotoGP races like World Rally Car or TT events, and just run back to back individual time trials instead of heads-up racing.
Click to expand...

When anyone can win a race, its not much more than a lottery. MotoGP at the moment is boring rider train, overtaking is virtually dead which is why turn 1 on the opening lap is so important, then its tire management and then rider A decides to pull the pin on rider B when they think they have more rubber. Basically tune in for the start and the last lap, and youve got it, I would not pay money to fly off to Europe and watch the circus at the moment. They need to kill aero and ride height or do something to sort the shitshow out. When Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo Marquez, Pedrosa were racing it was the best for spectating and we are lucky have been around to be part of it especially when Marquez was at his peak. Honda experimented with aero in the 500cc era and said they cut lap time by 2 seconds but abandoned development because it was so hard on the riders.

Any way they do have time trials its called qualifying, and Vinales used to win it all the time :)
 
Paul G said:
When anyone can win a race, its not much more than a lottery. MotoGP at the moment is boring rider train, overtaking is virtually dead which is why turn 1 on the opening lap is so important, then its tire management and then rider A decides to pull the pin on rider B when they think they have more rubber. Basically tune in for the start and the last lap, and youve got it, I would not pay money to fly off to Europe and watch the circus at the moment. They need to kill aero and ride height or do something to sort the shitshow out. When Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo Marquez, Pedrosa were racing it was the best for spectating and we are lucky have been around to be part of it especially when Marquez was at his peak. Honda experimented with aero in the 500cc era and said they cut lap time by 2 seconds but abandoned development because it was so hard on the riders.

Any way they do have time trials its called qualifying, and Vinales used to win it all the time :)
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I’m inclined to agree with your observations here.
 
Paul G said:
When anyone can win a race, its not much more than a lottery. MotoGP at the moment is boring rider train, overtaking is virtually dead which is why turn 1 on the opening lap is so important, then its tire management and then rider A decides to pull the pin on rider B when they think they have more rubber. Basically tune in for the start and the last lap, and youve got it, I would not pay money to fly off to Europe and watch the circus at the moment. They need to kill aero and ride height or do something to sort the shitshow out. When Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo Marquez, Pedrosa were racing it was the best for spectating and we are lucky have been around to be part of it especially when Marquez was at his peak. Honda experimented with aero in the 500cc era and said they cut lap time by 2 seconds but abandoned development because it was so hard on the riders.

Any way they do have time trials its called qualifying, and Vinales used to win it all the time :)
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Paul is actually Alberto Puig in disguise ;)
 
Paul G said:
They need to kill aero and ride height or do something to sort the shitshow out. When Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo Marquez, Pedrosa were racing it was the best for spectating and we are lucky have been around
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I agree MotoGP hasn’t been super thrilling to watch this year or last year even.

Not sure if I agree that it is the bike/aero/ride height device that is making it a bit boring though.

If the same tech was available in 2008-2015 I think that Rossi/Stoney/Pedrosa/Lorenzo/Marquez would be putting on a better show than what we are seeing today.

the field is full of fantastic riders, but we aren’t seeing a season long fight between 3-4 riders that can and do fight for the win every weekend
 
burton said:
the field is full of fantastic riders, but we aren’t seeing a season long fight between 3-4 riders that can and do fight for the win every weekend
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If Nakagami wasn't an outright bowling ball and wiping out serious contenders then you might actually get to see that kind of fight.

FQ is consistent but Rins, Mir, Bastia, Pecco, A. Esp all have the pace. So do Martin and Zarco but less consistently.

It's a competitive grid but the aero hinders overtaking as confirmed by riders and teams.
 
Alkhater said:
If Nakagami wasn't an outright bowling ball and wiping out serious contenders then you might actually get to see that kind of fight.
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No doubt. That was very ...... up and two races in a row. There were a few good last lap battles with Pecco last year and just when he started performing on the 2022 bike, Nakagami face plants his back tire.
 
I still love MotoGP even if it's not the same when there were more flamboyant pilots. We can hope for the next gen. but I think the competition is so insanely tight with the top 10 within .5seconds, winning leans towards hyper precision consistency and emotionless accuracy over ballz-out inventing a move on the fly Rossi-days. Hope I'm wrong. Way more interesting when it's more clever human factor winning. It might just be the "cold" pilots are getting contracts because their more predictable. People like Miller ride best when over joyed, and sucks when he's sad and has his contract in question.
But the TT is on another level.
MotoGP is a contained experiment within safety factors and sponsors bending tight rules. Still amazing but,
The TT is a gladiator sport.
GP pilots scraping elbows on perfect pavement.
TT Pilots scraping helmets on pubs and trees. That .... is other worldly.
Somewhere I saw Rossi and Stoner at a TT ages ago. Someone asked, would you try a TT and they both said ".... NO!" (using different words)
 
You all are wrong ;)

GP lacks the panache of the Rossi, Lorenzo, Stoner era. There’s no more show. Rivalries are more subdued. Today’s paddock is more clinical and technical it’s hard to get passionate over that. But it’s the best of the best so watching it is always a joy.

TT is meh. What they do is impressive but hard to be passionate when the competition is between the rider and Course. If it was a mass start (which would never happen) then I could get into in.

Where it’s at is WSS/WSBK. Close bar-to-bar racing with good rivalries. Sure it may be the same 3 riders vying for the top spot but it’s so unpredictable and suspenseful. It’s pure honest racing. Bikes aren’t such a factor. Good variability in manufacturers. And c’mon that save from Toprak at Estoril was mental. Not to mention Balda’s save at Aragon.

So get on board and stop being so wrong.
 

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