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Yup, lots of questions on this one to get to an answer. A few more:
Which model 1199 do you have - S or base (Ohlins or Marzocchi/Sachs)?
What is your weight with gear?
Do you know your sag numbers now?
Do you know your suspension settings now (front and rear clickers/preload amounts)?
Generally, if you want faster steering you need to adjust the attitude of the bike front-to-rear, by either raising the rear ride height or lowering the front, or a combination of both. The rear can be adjusted by changing the rear ride height by lengthening the shock, or by simply increasing spring preload so it sits higher when you are on the bike. The front is adjusted by raising or lowering the forks in the triple clamps. As outhouse also asks above, tires can radically change steering characteristics, and that is a separate discussion from suspension settings.
So many variables are affected here though and you want to do it right. Good place to start is to understand what effect motorcycle geometry has on handling and how to set it right. This site is a good place to start your education: Chassis set up Videos | Feel The Track (yes, that is a typo in the URL that the site owner made)
Which model 1199 do you have - S or base (Ohlins or Marzocchi/Sachs)?
What is your weight with gear?
Do you know your sag numbers now?
Do you know your suspension settings now (front and rear clickers/preload amounts)?
Generally, if you want faster steering you need to adjust the attitude of the bike front-to-rear, by either raising the rear ride height or lowering the front, or a combination of both. The rear can be adjusted by changing the rear ride height by lengthening the shock, or by simply increasing spring preload so it sits higher when you are on the bike. The front is adjusted by raising or lowering the forks in the triple clamps. As outhouse also asks above, tires can radically change steering characteristics, and that is a separate discussion from suspension settings.
So many variables are affected here though and you want to do it right. Good place to start is to understand what effect motorcycle geometry has on handling and how to set it right. This site is a good place to start your education: Chassis set up Videos | Feel The Track (yes, that is a typo in the URL that the site owner made)
Get him started from the beginning.
Tyre pressures set at the factory recommendations for a start, as a standard baseline to work with.
Then.
Has the static and rider sag been set up as required on both ends?
Then we can start to think about the next step in optimizing his handling
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-shorter wheel base..
-raise the ride height...
-raise the ride height...
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Bonknee1, I was looking for exactly the same on my 2012 Tricolore. I have lengthened the shock to the maximum allowed, which raises the rear end about 10 mm (don't let the small groove on the eyelet end extend past the blue locknut). I also lowered the front end 4mm by raising the fork tubes above the triple clamp by the same amount (there is approx 4mm already showing as delivered, so now there is 8mm). I really like the way the bike feels, but I have also softened the springs front (9.5 one-side only), and rear (75), as well as had both ends re-valved, and utilize the F link position. Sag set to 40 front & 30mm rear. Be sure your tires are not too worn as they tend to make the turn in feel very strange. With the changes mentioned above, and good tires, it is a much more accurate and composed ride now.
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Get him started from the beginning.
Tyre pressures set at the factory recommendations for a start, as a standard baseline to work with.
Then.
Has the static and rider sag been set up as required on both ends?
Then we can start to think about the next step in optimizing his handling
No.
You start from the ground up, and factory settings are BS I wouldnt let my kid drive those pressures, so I would never give that advise to anyone.
I agree sag comes into play but not as much with tip in with how hard the factory sets up the rear suspension.
I personally ride a bike home and set sag, I dont run around for a while checking it out. I hope OP is the same.
OP or anyone IMHO should be running 31psi front and 30 rear.
More then likely its just someone not used to the bike, or not going fast enough. These bikes hate slow riding.
I do
#1 tire pressure
#2 sag
#3 suspension settings
But #1 has the biggest effect to tip in, and hopefully he has #2 already sorted out.
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I agree with outhouse that tire pressure is very important. If you really want to get the bike to feel "up on its toes", then increase the pressures further than stated, but you will find like I did that it bounces all over the place, and feels very unsettled. It will however, turn in considerably easier. I use the exact pressures outhouse mentions, and they seem spot on.
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No, only the shock length affects ride height in the rear.
jarelj
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Track or street? What are you comparing it to to characterize it as slow turn-in? By slow turn in do you mean the initial transition from upright to lean, or holding a line on corner entry? There are lots of variables, so kind of hard to give an answer if you already have your suspension set up correctly.
For me it would ruin the bike.
Love the stability, and how the weight is set up compared to older models 1098/848
I have not seen enough handling complaints to warrant such a change.
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I was just wondering, because some reviews say the 899 is nimbler/better track times. So if you had the same geometry as the 899, and since the 1199 is lighter than the 899, theoretically you end up with a pretty awesome setup. Theoretically...hence my question.
I know some friends who put different triples on their 848 and it turns much better than mine.
I know some friends who put different triples on their 848 and it turns much better than mine.
jarelj
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The racing setup for the 1199 is to switch to 28mm offset triples from the 30mm stock setup, which is a much smaller change than on the 848/1098/1198 where most of the time we were going from 36mm offset stock triples to 28 or 30mm offset racing triples. The Panigale is already setup with more of a racing chassis right off the bat than the xx98 bikes were, and generally it already turns in a lot quicker. Keep in mind that the larger rear wheel/tire and longer wheelbase on the 1199 vs. the 899 compromises ease of turning for the benefit of more traction on corner exits.
Aren't the pressures recommended by Outhouse the factory recommendations in the Owners Manual?
That's what I run
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