Racer vs Technician (motegi gp)

Chaotic · Oct 14, 2015

Excuses are .........

Eliminating mistakes is part of winning a Championship. That is the case whether we are talking about roadracing or golf or football. I think it is stupid as .... when people say "____ only won because ____ crashed" and .... like that.

Crashes are mistakes. Either poor inputs by the rider, poor setup, poor component choices, poor judgment of available grip, poor tire choice, etc. You might can say 1% of crashes are due to some mechanical failure that was completely out of anyone's control. Aside from that, a crash was a mistake.

A messed up visor? Then he should have chosen a different visor. Mistake.
Burnt up tires? Then he should have conserved his tires better earlier in the race. Mistake.

You never hear somebody say "Tiger didn't actually win the PGA title, he only got it because Mickleson missed that putt" or "the best team didn't win the game, they only won it because of penalties or interceptions by the other team". Well guess what...missing putts, throwing interceptions, getting penalties...those are all mistakes. They made mistakes, so they lost.

Like when somebody records times of 0.3 faster, but they crash. The person who won wasn't "given" ..... It doesn't matter if the other guy had lap times 0.3 faster...he crashed...which means he wasn't the better rider in that race.

It doesn't make sense to discredit the victory of one person because his competitors made mistakes. Eliminating/minimizing mistakes and being consistent is part of winning Championships.

jdgun · Oct 14, 2015

Chaotic said:
Excuses are .........

You never hear somebody say "Tiger didn't actually win the PGA title, he only got it because Mickleson missed that putt" or "the best team didn't win the game, they only won it because of penalties or interceptions by the other team". Well guess what...missing putts, throwing interceptions, getting penalties...those are all mistakes. They made mistakes, so they lost.

So the whole, The ref's were rascist's man.... is BS?

centeroff · Oct 14, 2015

Reading and watching the interviews of Lorenzo after this last race, reminds of a Ford guy when he gets beat. The un ending litany of excuses. Hopefully the last 3 races this year will go like last year.

jyli19 · Oct 14, 2015

A consistency of excellence made champions. Why we have a points system, and 18 races. To win, you need to perform at different tracks, different conditions, and different competitions. Otherwise, why even race, just count Qualifying results and call it a day.

Like Nicky says, "that's why we line up on sunday". To prove yourself through 20-25 laps.

I like Jorge, I think he's the fastest guy out there, but Rossi has displayed throughout the season what really makes a champion. and Honestly, I counted him out years ago. Look, he proved me wrong, Stoner whimped out, Marquez crashed out, Pedrosa all beat up physically, and now Lorenzo is blaming the weather.

Hats off to Rossi, win or lose.

Prince Albert · Oct 14, 2015

Congrats to all the racers for their efforts

Macattack · Oct 14, 2015

Stoner mortgaged his whole childhood literally his entire life to pursue his dream of being a motorcycle racer. One day it just wasn't fun anymore .
he wanted to raise a family. I think it is hard to fathom , but so is racing a motogp bike winning championships etc etc.

I don't like things about lorenzo , stoner, Rossi , marquez ,but I would never call them out like some internet racers do. I love to watch them race . but at the same time my respect for each and every one is based on their undeniable talent. I guess the thing that gives me pause is that there is some person out there that thinks they could hang with them on a track . reality is not one person on this forum has anywhere near the talent these 25+ riders have

when someone on the web calls stoner or rossi or pedrosa or lorenzo slow or not a racer You sound delusional
In fact by definition you are delusional .

youngR · Oct 14, 2015

Macattack said:
Stoner mortgaged his whole childhood literally his entire life to pursue his dream of being a motorcycle racer. One day it just wasn't fun anymore .
he wanted to raise a family. I think it is hard to fathom , but so is racing a motogp bike winning championships etc etc.

I don't like things about lorenzo , stoner, Rossi , marquez ,but I would never call them out like some internet racers do. I love to watch them race . but at the same time my respect for each and every one is based on their undeniable talent. I guess the thing that gives me pause is that there is some person out there that thinks they could hang with them on a track . reality is not one person on this forum has anywhere near the talent these 25+ riders have

when someone on the web calls stoner or rossi or pedrosa or lorenzo slow or not a racer You sound delusional
In fact by definition you are delusional .

I am trying to remember anyone saying MotoGP riders slow in this forum...

I think any fan of Rossi, MM, Stoner, or JLo and whatever the difference of opinoins are...they will never say others are slow or not a racer.

And if they did, you are right. they are delusional. Hell...Stoner's little girl probably is faster than me.

kismetcapitan · Oct 14, 2015

Chaotic said:
Excuses are .........

Eliminating mistakes is part of winning a Championship. That is the case whether we are talking about roadracing or golf or football. I think it is stupid as .... when people say "____ only won because ____ crashed" and .... like that.

Crashes are mistakes. Either poor inputs by the rider, poor setup, poor component choices, poor judgment of available grip, poor tire choice, etc. You might can say 1% of crashes are due to some mechanical failure that was completely out of anyone's control. Aside from that, a crash was a mistake.

A messed up visor? Then he should have chosen a different visor. Mistake.
Burnt up tires? Then he should have conserved his tires better earlier in the race. Mistake.

You never hear somebody say "Tiger didn't actually win the PGA title, he only got it because Mickleson missed that putt" or "the best team didn't win the game, they only won it because of penalties or interceptions by the other team". Well guess what...missing putts, throwing interceptions, getting penalties...those are all mistakes. They made mistakes, so they lost.

Like when somebody records times of 0.3 faster, but they crash. The person who won wasn't "given" ..... It doesn't matter if the other guy had lap times 0.3 faster...he crashed...which means he wasn't the better rider in that race.

It doesn't make sense to discredit the victory of one person because his competitors made mistakes. Eliminating/minimizing mistakes and being consistent is part of winning Championships.

some mistakes are out of control of the rider. I'm still baffled by when Pedrosa's front tire warmer got stuck and they pulled his bike off the grid in 2012 at Misano. Pedrosa went from pole position and in very serious contention for the title, to yet another also-ran season.

then there was the time when Noriyuki Haga's oriental herbal supplements (a VERY common practice in Asian countries) caused him to be penalized for ephedra in 2000, and taking him out of contention for the title.

and what if Marquez' black flag at Phillip Island cost him the championship? is that rider error, or the team's fault?

It may all make sense if we recognize that MotoGP is a team sport. Perhaps not at the level of 24h Le Mans, but coordination and teamwork plays a bigger part than one might think. I ran into Jeremy Burgess in the bathroom at Indy '13; didn't talk about anything potentially sensitive, but one does have to wonder - Rossi's adaptation of riding style....what percent is Rossi, and what percent is his new crew chief?

Chaotic · Oct 15, 2015

Macattack said:
Stoner mortgaged his whole childhood literally his entire life to pursue his dream of being a motorcycle racer. One day it just wasn't fun anymore .
he wanted to raise a family. I think it is hard to fathom , but so is racing a motogp bike winning championships etc etc.

I don't like things about lorenzo , stoner, Rossi , marquez ,but I would never call them out like some internet racers do. I love to watch them race . but at the same time my respect for each and every one is based on their undeniable talent. I guess the thing that gives me pause is that there is some person out there that thinks they could hang with them on a track . reality is not one person on this forum has anywhere near the talent these 25+ riders have

when someone on the web calls stoner or rossi or pedrosa or lorenzo slow or not a racer You sound delusional
In fact by definition you are delusional .

Well said.

Stoner rode/raced motorcycles for 20-something years. He reached a point where the drama and BS in the paddock and of the governing body took the enjoyment out of it, so he walked away while still had his health, had plenty of money in the bank...and while being able to say he was one of the fastest riders to ever sit on a motorcycle.

Rossi can and will still snag a pole position every now and then. He has plenty of speed. You can't beat somebody if you can't run with them or catch up to them, which he has proven he can do. The difference is that Rossi is the best "racer" in the universe. Once Rossi is up to someone and the battle ensues, I will put my money on Rossi every time. He might not always come out ahead, but he damn sure comes out ahead more than he is left behind.

But for anyone to discredit the effort, talent or commitment of ANYONE running a full racing season, whether we are talking about MotoGP or Club racing...is ....... ridiculous.

youngR · Oct 15, 2015

Chaotic said:
Well said.

Stoner rode/raced motorcycles for 20-something years. He reached a point where the drama and BS in the paddock and of the governing body took the enjoyment out of it, so he walked away while still had his health, had plenty of money in the bank...and while being able to say he was one of the fastest riders to ever sit on a motorcycle.

Rossi can and will still snag a pole position every now and then. He has plenty of speed. You can't beat somebody if you can't run with them or catch up to them, which he has proven he can do. The difference is that Rossi is the best "racer" in the universe. Once Rossi is up to someone and the battle ensues, I will put my money on Rossi every time. He might not always come out ahead, but he damn sure comes out ahead more than he is left behind.

But for anyone to discredit the effort, talent or commitment of ANYONE running a full racing season, whether we are talking about MotoGP or Club racing...is ....... ridiculous.

Fair enough. But I think we were dicussing those that are equals (efforts, talent, commitment) and not mortals like us.

and I agree about Rossi.

I dont like JLo much but I hope he keeps going strong.

Chaotic · Oct 15, 2015

As much as I hate to admit it (because Rossi is my fav), Lorenzo is probably the best pure rider at this stage in their career. Meaning if I wanted somebody to go out there and give me the best lap time on an empty track, he would be the man. Rossi can and has done it, but if I had to take odds, I would put more money on Lorenzo in a Qualifying type of situation.

Lorenzo is so smooth and he is like a machine. He rarely ever makes mistakes.

But the fastest laps don't always win; that is why they race. And in a racing situation, I will put my money on Rossi any day.

He just has to make sure Lorenzo doesn't get out in front (on a dry track) on his own. When that happens, it is hard to chase him down.

youngR · Oct 15, 2015

http://http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2015/10/14/sometimes-being-the-fastest-rider-on-the-planet-isn-t-enough/187059

Great read - exactly what we are discussing here

Sometimes being the fastest rider on the planet isn't enough

jdgun · Oct 15, 2015

youngR said:
http://http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2015/10/14/sometimes-being-the-fastest-rider-on-the-planet-isn-t-enough/187059

Great read - exactly what we are discussing here

Sometimes being the fastest rider on the planet isn't enough

The Italian though felt it disrespectful to suggest that credit for his advantage is down to the misfortune of Lorenzo

Don't feel that it is direspectful, it is but the truth! Accept it, Enjoy it, Relish in it, and in the end if you win the title it won't really matter now will it? not like you will have * next to the title, for using PED or something. Oh wait that's more of an American thing.

Phl · Oct 15, 2015

Prince Albert said:
Congrats to all the racers for their efforts

kudos to KIA for a change in spirit here:

https://youtu.be/v-gwjJ_NXKU

Racer vs Technician (motegi gp)

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